What grade do you give for the 2020-21 season?

[SubGod22]

We don’t know what would have happened in the cancelled game so I don’t see how one can possibly consider them in the final grade one way or the other. But it seems you are more inclined to assume they would have been losses and to use them against the final grade. I don’t agree with that approach but that’s just me.

Some seem to not want to acknowledge COVID at all. I don’t think it should be used as an “excuse” but it should certainly be considered.

You put a lot of words in my mouth there. I didn't day how we would do one way or the other in those games but that you can't just blow people off who consider the fact that we didn't play 3 games against the top teams. One who beat the **** out of us. Just saying there's no reason not to look at the whole picture rather than ignore it.

[pie n eye]

Again with ORU, did we beat them? Yep.

Are they still dancing? Yep.

Did we win AAC Championship? Yep.

Are we still dancing? Nope.

So what I’m getting here is that the only thing that matters to you is the NCAA tournament.

[pie n eye]

You put a lot of words in my mouth there. I didn't day how we would do one way or the other in those games but that you can't just blow people off who consider the fact that we didn't play 3 games against the top teams. One who beat the **** out of us. Just saying there's no reason not to look at the whole picture rather than ignore it.

We are all aware of the missed games. No one is ignoring it. You continuing to bring them up at the same time you mention the beat down at Memphis lead me to believe that you don’t think we would have won enough of the cancelled games to win a championship. Am I wrong?

[ShockerFever]

So what I’m getting here is that the only thing that matters to you is the NCAA tournament.

Isn't that the only thing that matters? Isn't that what you play your season for?

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Isn't that the only thing that matters? Isn't that what you play your season for?

pie n eye - If SF and I are on the same side of an argument, and you on the other, you’re on the wrong side.

Can’t we all just agree how much fun it was to watch KU and the Big 10, and the Net, and the selection committee get embarrassed?

[pie n eye]

Isn't that the only thing that matters? Isn't that what you play your season for?

Obviously it’s an important part of the season that every team sets their sights on but I don’t think it’s the only thing that matters.

[Horn28Clem30]

Isn't that the only thing that matters? Isn't that what you play your season for?

Exactly. This program is to a standard now that NCAA wins are all that matters.

[SubGod22]

We are all aware of the missed games. No one is ignoring it. You continuing to bring them up at the same time you mention the beat down at Memphis lead me to believe that you don’t think we would have won enough of the cancelled games to win a championship. Am I wrong?

Based on the results of the first game and how we were playing at the end of the season, I'm not confident we would have beaten Memphis. I have no clue about SMU. And as I said, we did a great job of keeping bad teams in games but we managed to eek out wins. There's no guarantee had we played the other games that we missed out on that we would have won them all. We may have. But if everyone played a full schedule, and based on how we played, I do doubt that we would have won the conference. There's no doubt that Houston was far and away the best team in the conference. Yes, we beat them at home and they did slip up to ECU, but day in, day out, they were/are better than us this season.

Over the course of a full season, you never know how things play out and maybe we still would have managed to win the conference. We will never know for sure, but I'm not confident that we would have. But, also as I've said previously, I always saw this team as a top 3 team in the conference and I believe in a full season we would have finished in that range, even as inconsistent as we were and the complete lack of a killer instinct.

[ShockerFever]

Obviously it’s an important part of the season that every team sets their sights on but I don’t think it’s the only thing that matters.

Creighton mindset?

[pie n eye]

Creighton mindset?

I don’t know what that means, you’ll have to tell me.

I guess for some the 2013-2014 season would have been an F “if not for the undefeated regular season”.

Sometimes you have a great team and lose an all time classic and don’t see the second weekend. It’s happened to a ton of other teams. It happens every year. It doesn’t mean you weren’t still a great team. Unfortunately in a single elimination tournament the better team, as proven over the course of an entire season, doesn’t always win.

[SubGod22]

I don’t know what that means, you’ll have to tell me.

I guess for some the 2013-2014 season would have been an F “if not for the undefeated regular season”.

Sometimes you have a great team and lose an all time classic and don’t see the second weekend. It’s happened to a ton of other teams. It happens every year. It doesn’t mean you weren’t still a great team. Unfortunately in a single elimination tournament the better team, as proven over the course of an entire season, doesn’t always win.

There's also a big difference in playing a great game and losing to a team that also played great, and was horribly under seeded, and playing like **** and losing to a not all that good team who also didn't play very well.

But the goal is always the NCAA tournament and it should also be to win games. Just making it, doesn't do much unless you're a program that is just happy to be there. We're well beyond the should be happy to just be there as a program. The undefeated season was also a team that played pretty damn well the whole year. Not even close to what we saw this year where we scraped by a number of games. You can't compare the two as being even in the same ballpark.

And continually going to it would be an F if not for this is far from being intellectually honest and you know it. Or at least I would hope you do.

[pie n eye]

And continually going to it would be an F if not for this is far from being intellectually honest and you know it. Or at least I would hope you do.

So what is your grade for this season? I’ve stated mine. Most of what you’ve posted so far is criticism of those who think it’s an A.

I continue to go back to the “F if not for..” because someone literally said “this season was an F if not for the regular season championship” and I think that is a ridiculous take.

[pie n eye]

There's also a big difference in playing a great game and losing to a team that also played great, and was horribly under seeded, and playing like **** and losing to a not all that good team who also didn't play very well.

I brought up that season to counter the “NCAA is all that matters” idea. If that’s the case then 2013-2014 season was a failure.

[pie n eye]

There's also a big difference in playing a great game and losing to a team that also played great, and was horribly under seeded, and playing like **** and losing to a not all that good team who also didn't play very well.

But the goal is always the NCAA tournament and it should also be to win games. Just making it, doesn't do much unless you're a program that is just happy to be there. We're well beyond the should be happy to just be there as a program. The undefeated season was also a team that played pretty damn well the whole year. Not even close to what we saw this year where we scraped by a number of games. You can't compare the two as being even in the same ballpark.

Obviously one of the goals every season is to make the NCAA tournament and win games. That’s what everyone wants. It’s not realistic to expect it every year.

Duke missed the tourney this year. Duke. Kentucky has missed it twice in the last 10 years.

Even the teams with the longest active streaks don’t make deep runs every year. Look at KU. We’re all aware of their losses. Gonzaga had a five year stretch where they didn’t make it past the first weekend. And those two teams are rarely working with an 11 seed.

Yeah, it sucks we lost a game I think we should have won. I thought we looked like the better team for most of the game. But let’s not act like Drake was just some crap team. They were ranked well ahead of us in KenPom.

Unlike the last time we lost our first game in the NCAA tournament we bring back potentially the entire roster. Continuity is huge. This year will be more normal. The guys should be able to work together in the off season, play a closed door scrimmage, an exhibition game, and a full slate of non conference games. We shouldn’t have to worry about conference games being cancelled.

We all want WSU to be a top team in the American and to make the NCAA and win games there. That’s the goal. We took a big hit with some unfortunate circumstances after our first year in the American and we’ve been trying to build the program back to the level we all want since then.

In my eyes this year was another step in the right direction, despite the NCAA loss. Let’s not lose sight of the forest for the trees.

[Dan]

I would say the ultimate goal is to do well enough in the non-conf season to start getting votes in the polls, do well enough in the season to challenge for championships and ultimately not be sweating selection Sunday. Once you get in, the goal is the Sweet 16, everything after that is gravy. That's a lot to ask every year, but if you're a top notch program, that's what you expect.