Coaching Changes

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

No doubt - I doubt HCGM focused on those lovely locations. His focus would have been Winning, National Profile, Tournament Success... or all those reasons guys like Landry stated that they chose WSU over BCS offers.

LOL!! You are seriously diggin a hole my man. If you don't think the majority of kids would rather play in a higher profile conference with MUCH larger media markets you are out yo damn mind.

[shock]

Some interesting thoughts here.

Moving to the American undoubtedly opened doors that would not have been open otherwise for recruiting. By the same token, our margin for error in getting the recruits we need has decreased drastically. We would not be able to take a flier on as many players as we have in the Valley (some of which worked out and some of which did not). This makes it more difficult because the ROI for looking for diamonds in the rough also decreases. But the current ability of players we need to recruit in the AAC needs to check more boxes than it did in the Vallley. So I wouldn't say it becomes more difficult from a brand recognition standpoint, but it has more to do with the field of players who fit the criteria we need narrowing.

Exactly. I think this is why we have seen the issues we have the last few years. This years newbies addressed your point- instead of finding the best players and fitting the system to them, they prioritized fit to the system (including cerebral) and found the best players they thought fit the system.

looking back through the years Marshall had Toures teams, the Ron and Fred teams, Landry’s team, Erik/Dexter teams, and now the Tyson/Ricky team (not including Dex because he is a holdover from a previous failed attempt at building a team).

The Toure and Ron/Fred teams played within the system and won big because of it. There was ONE year not playing the system worked- Landry’s team, and that’s only because they were the best in the NCAA on O. If that team applied themselves on defense the way they did on offense they would have been unstoppable.

I believe this team would have been the third team to stick to running the system and could have had even more success doing it. They tried but were running on fumes and memories from the Marshall Era and with out FHCGM there to direct it and not enough time to install one HCIB is comfortable teaching and directing, they were stuck somewhere between no system and Marshall’s system and we got what we got.

I think next year, HCIB will start installing a system he thinks will work. That’s a slippery slope- if he installs a whole system and it has issues, he might be tempted to tweak it and adapt it (water it down) and they end up playing the same type of ball we saw this year. If he installs it slowly, it might not make it all the way and we still see the same type of ball we saw this year.

I would like to see HCIB install a simple, hair-on-fire man defense that prioritizes rebounds, and a simple offense that has plays that can be built on and expanded. Ideally the offense would have strict roles(read Marshallball), but with set times for improv (letting dawgs be dawgs). It will take a PG and a SG that will doggedly follow the system and not try to play street ball too much but I think something blended like that would be enough to harness the dawgs but still let them ball.

[WstateU]

Exactly. I think this is why we have seen the issues we have the last few years. This years newbies addressed your point- instead of finding the best players and fitting the system to them, they prioritized fit to the system (including cerebral) and found the best players they thought fit the system.

looking back through the years Marshall had Toures teams, the Ron and Fred teams, Landry’s team, Erik/Dexter teams, and now the Tyson/Ricky team (not including Dex because he is a holdover from a previous failed attempt at building a team).

The Toure and Ron/Fred teams played within the system and won big because of it. There was ONE year not playing the system worked- Landry’s team, and that’s only because they were the best in the NCAA on O. If that team applied themselves on defense the way they did on offense they would have been unstoppable.

I believe this team would have been the third team to stick to running the system and could have had even more success doing it. They tried but were running on fumes and memories from the Marshall Era and with out FHCGM there to direct it and not enough time to install one HCIB is comfortable teaching and directing, they were stuck somewhere between no system and Marshall’s system and we got what we got.

I think next year, HCIB will start installing a system he thinks will work. That’s a slippery slope- if he installs a whole system and it has issues, he might be tempted to tweak it and adapt it (water it down) and they end up playing the same type of ball we saw this year. If he installs it slowly, it might not make it all the way and we still see the same type of ball we saw this year.

I would like to see HCIB install a simple, hair-on-fire man defense that prioritizes rebounds, and a simple offense that has plays that can be built on and expanded. Ideally the offense would have strict roles(read Marshallball), but with set times for improv (letting dawgs be dawgs). It will take a PG and a SG that will doggedly follow the system and not try to play street ball too much but I think something blended like that would be enough to harness the dawgs but still let them ball.

Forty minutes of doggin'...

[proshox]

LOL!! You are seriously diggin a hole my man. If you don't think the majority of kids would rather play in a higher profile conference with MUCH larger media markets you are out yo damn mind.

What I am saying is that going to the NCAA tournament trumps media markets. WSU’s profile was as high as any non-Blue Blood program from 2013-2017.

[ShockerFever]

What I am saying is that going to the NCAA tournament trumps media markets. WSU’s profile was as high as any non-Blue Blood program from 2013-2017.

Being the big fish in the little pond is more important? Saying you're the biggest media market when compared to Evansville, Terra Haute, and Carbondale is really saying something.

If we went 16-5 and 11-2 in the Valley this year and lost in the MVC semifinals, do you think we make the NCAA Tournament?

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Surprised by this. I thought they would go hard after Dutcher at SDSU. His contract stipulated a buyout of only $1.5 million if he left for Minnesota but like $6.5 million if anywhere else. His Dad coached there, he went to school there, was thought to be his dream gig.

[IndianaShocker]

And he had a lot of recruits blow him off or not let him in the door because they weren't going to play for anyone in the MVC. Even Marshall admitted more doors opened simply by being in the American and I forget which recruit we landed that stated they wouldn't have considered an MVC Wichita State.

Not saying we should have stayed in the MVC, but here are guys we signed in our late MVC years:

Cle Early
Tekele Cotton
FVV
Ron Baker
Landry Shamet
Connor Frankamp
Darryl Willis
Shaq Morris
Austin Reaves
Marcus McDuffie

The only Shocker AAC recruits comparable to the level of those MVC recruits above are Jamie and TE. MAYBE Dexter. MAYBE

[Stickboy46]

Not saying we should have stayed in the MVC, but here are guys we signed in our late MVC years:

Cle Early
Tekele Cotton
FVV
Ron Baker
Landry Shamet
Connor Frankamp
Darryl Willis
Shaq Morris
Austin Reaves
Marcus McDuffie

The only Shocker AAC recruits comparable to the level of those MVC recruits above are Jamie and TE. MAYBE Dexter. MAYBE

Probably doesn't help that the first year after moving to the AAC we had a major roster overhaul in which we had to fill way too many scholarships and couldn't keep most of them. We haven't had any roster continuity to sell to players since we have moved to the AAC. Lots of playing time .. but playing with who as your teammates has been an unknown. How many of the players in the later half came to play with FVV and Baker. I know multiple players mentioned that was a reason (including Landry)

[IndianaShocker]

Per 247
2020 Recruiting Class (AAC)
#74 overall

3* CJ - offers from St Bonaventure, Iona, Akron
3* CP - no other offers listed
3* RC3 - Rice, App State
3* JS - App State, CoC, NC State, USF
3* CJ - no others listed

Where are the 4* players and P5 schools we're having to beat out??

[Stickboy46]

Per 247
2020 Recruiting Class (AAC)
#74 overall

3* CJ - offers from St Bonaventure, Iona, Akron
3* CP - no other offers listed
3* RC3 - Rice, App State
3* JS - App State, CoC, NC State, USF
3* CJ - no others listed

Where are the 4* players and P5 schools we're having to beat out??

You just listed a list of players we scrambled to get in April after the season after half our team departed ...

[IndianaShocker]

Probably doesn't help that the first year after moving to the AAC we had a major roster overhaul in which we had to fill way too many scholarships and couldn't keep most of them. We haven't had any roster continuity to sell to players since we have moved to the AAC. Lots of playing time .. but playing with who as your teammates has been an unknown. How many of the players in the later half came to play with FVV and Baker. I know multiple players mentioned that was a reason (including Landry)

LS, CF, MM, SM at most. There's zero question we had better talent and skill the last 5+ years in the MVC compared to our AAC rosters.

Since the change we've brought in very few complete players. Several have "AAC" athleticism but also AAC bbiq and offensive skill. I'd be more than happy to sacrifice a few inches of wingspan for a knock down shooter. Just sayin'

[IndianaShocker]

You just listed a list of players we scrambled to get in April after the season after half our team departed ...

You're right. What class since joining the AAC do you want to use?

[pie n eye]

I’m shocked that the list of great players we recruited while in a conference for 10 years is longer than than the list from the conference we’ve been in for barely four years.

[proshox]

I’m shocked that the list of great players we recruited while in a conference for 10 years is longer than than the list from the conference we’ve been in for barely four years.

The list could have been longer... The current roster is Dex and TE followed by solid players that would have off the bench contributors from 2011 until 2018.

[IndianaShocker]

I’m shocked that the list of great players we recruited while in a conference for 10 years is longer than than the list from the conference we’ve been in for barely four years.

Wrong.

The MVC recruits listed all were part of recruiting classes 2011-2016. AAC recruiting classes 2017 (IPBC/SHJ) - present