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  • #31
    Originally posted by GreatWhiteBuffalo View Post

    "Normal" doesn't matter here. If you get to the final third of the season, and you have not introduced wrinkles, you've failed your team as a coach. Do you think the NCAA football teams just trotted out there with their fall camp playbooks and ran with only that into the Championships? Coaches should always be evaluating (players, staff, and self), always be adapting, always be scheming, always be looking for any advantage. To say that IB doesn't need to do that because this year wasn't "normal" is...wow. So because things aren't going the way they typically do, he should just not do his job?
    Ok, so he introduces a new game concept .. then the next day gets told he can't practice with his team for a week and half, then has to play Houston. We get blown out by Houston because the team is confused about the new concept they learned a week and a half ago and never got to practice but are being forced to use because the coach of the first place AAC team has fans that want to "see new wrinkles". Sounds great.

    Seriously, I'm confused why ADDB didn't just come on Shockernet to get our next coach. We have SOOOO many great coaches on here that know exactly what it takes to run a D1 program in the middle of a pandemic. You can't just act like this year was the same as every other year.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

      I believe IB said yesterday he was going to give them a week off then talk to them. That's probably best .. Give them some time to separate from a disappointing loss before making a critical life decision.
      Surely he's saying that he will give them a week to make a decision. and doesn't mean he doesn't talk to them during that week. He needs to be in their ear immediately if he wants them to return because others will be in their ear immediately. He is going to see players who are serious about their game informally, in the gym during the week he is talking about and it doesn't have to be a formal meeting for him to get an idea of what if happening with them.

      If he's not planning to see them for a week that is a mistake.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

        Ok, so he introduces a new game concept .. then the next day gets told he can't practice with his team for a week and half, then has to play Houston. We get blown out by Houston because the team is confused about the new concept they learned a week and a half ago and never got to practice but are being forced to use because the coach of the first place AAC team has fans that want to "see new wrinkles". Sounds great.

        Seriously, I'm confused why ADDB didn't just come on Shockernet to get our next coach. We have SOOOO many great coaches on here that know exactly what it takes to run a D1 program in the middle of a pandemic. You can't just act like this year was the same as every other year.
        I'm sorry if you think it is that simple. Back to the football analogy; if you think Lincoln Riley doesn't introduce something new, every week, you're sadly mistaken on what goes into coaching. Just because it has been introduced and practiced doesn't mean that is ALL there is to run in the next game. Stop excusing IB for not doing his job.

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        • #34
          Going forward in respect to IB:

          1. He was playing with house money this year and won
          2. Next year the pressure of being the permanent head coach of a top 40 program starts
          3. This business eats “good guys” up
          4. A plus for him, in today’s style and mess with college basketball, being a master tactician is a tie breaker, not a career breaker.
          4a. Coaches now win with instant talent teams, getting players to play hard for them and players liking each other.
          5. The element of surprise is gone. Teams know how to scout our players and despite IB putting some new wrinkles in, it was still the same offense.
          6. Again, DB offered him the job with 5x the pay he was making. Would any of you turn it down? Don’t blame IB for not being an idiot.
          7. Finally, he is my coach at the present time and like it or not, he is yours too. Don’t spend too much time playing “gotcha” on either side of the argument until he has a full season or two under his belt, unless you just like to fight with each other.

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          • #35
            Just because your not an IB truther, doesn’t mean you hate the guy and hope he’s going to be a failure.

            You can have legitimate concerns and doubts. You can think going with a different candidate with more experience is a better and safer option.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by 1972Shocker View Post

              I agree you probably aren't going to implement a new offense at that point especially when you are just trying to survive a crazy season with all kinds of restrictions and limits some of which no doubt impacted the continuity of practices. Nevertheless a coach can impact how he wants whatever the team is running to be implemented. If IB was okay with the stickiness of the ball, lack of ball and player movement and excessive dribbling, poor screening and cutting, and taking a lot of forced and wild shots then that's a problem. If he wasn't okay with it, then what did he do to try to change that. From what I can see either very little or the players ignored what he wanted. Either way that's a problem. I think the offense we have can work with much better execution, more patience and better BBIQ (i.e. know the difference between a good and bad shot or know when to kick the ball out to the perimeter either by the post players or players driving to the hole).

              Clearly, Coach IB has some real challenges to deal with. He seems to be a very likable and a very good man and I hope he is up to the task. I would be very happy to see IB be a success.

              While just a personal preference, I found the style of basketball the Shockers played this year as a bit painful to watch even when they were winning. The 3 games in the post season were like going to the dentist.
              I bolded a KEY statement. Were you in the practices? I'm guessing no. With limited capacity, Were you even at the games? I'm guessing most on here that is a no also. From watching the game on TV, were you able to see the coaching being done? I watched every game on TV. I sure don't remember seeing more than 2-3 minutes combined all year of any conversations on the bench because they were always focused on the court or the analysts or commercials. I sure can't make a judgement of what he did or didn't try to do. Heck, I'd argue that 99% of the people bitching on this board wouldn't be able to tell if an actual adjustment was made. The only thing they based their decisions on is whether more balls went in the hoop which has 100 factors to make that happen.

              I'm just saying in a crazy year like this year, making major changes probably wouldn't be smart. Yes, he should make minor adjustments. We definitely saw SOME of those throughout the year. I felt like the defensive gameplan last night was amazing. Drake has an elite offense and we shut them down. Did we suck on offense? yes. Some blame goes to IB, but we shot like crap. Including shooting like crap on a lot of really good shots. Heck we missed 4 shots in a row, 1 foot from the basket with the game on the line. We missed 11 FT. Dexter bricked several wide open 3s. They were selling out on stopping Etienne and we didn't have enough people step up and hit shots to take advantage of that.

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              • #37
                Honestly think giving him a multi year contract extension was stupid... And can't give any reason to why it was done. Beating Houston at home in a Covid year is not the reason. Boatwright made a quick rash decision and i hope it doesn't come back to bite is in the @$$. Hope I'm severely wrong.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by choida View Post
                  Honestly think giving him a multi year contract extension was stupid... And can't give any reason to why it was done. Beating Houston at home in a Covid year is not the reason. Boatwright made a quick rash decision and i hope it doesn't come back to bite is in the @$$. Hope I'm severely wrong.
                  Not hiring the AAC Coach of the year and coach of the team that won the AAC wouldn't have played out well. It might end up being the wrong decision in the long run, but it was the only decision in the short term. We literally went from being the dark story of the season to the feel good story of the season. That matters ... no matter how much people like to scream on here that it doesn't .. how the program is perceived in the national spotlight matters. The opinion of fans on message boards does not matter. That's just the reality of it. We repaired our program image in 3 months.

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                  • #39
                    At first I thought having a players coach might be a good thing but as the season progressed I think it
                    led to our downfall. Some players just got too much rope for doing their own thing. TE had a good season but
                    looking at stats certainly not that spectacular. Same for AG. I thought DD was our most solid all around
                    player but even that was 75% because of his great defense. MU finished the season strong and made me
                    a believer. Getting back to IB I think he has to get much tougher and not allow any selfish play which I thought
                    I saw a lot of in post season. Coach better ball movement and RECRUIT.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by asiseeit View Post
                      At first I thought having a players coach might be a good thing but as the season progressed I think it
                      led to our downfall. Some players just got too much rope for doing their own thing. TE had a good season but
                      looking at stats certainly not that spectacular. Same for AG.
                      I thought DD was our most solid all around
                      player but even that was 75% because of his great defense. MU finished the season strong and made me
                      a believer. Getting back to IB I think he has to get much tougher and not allow any selfish play which I thought
                      I saw a lot of in post season. Coach better ball movement and RECRUIT.
                      I'm curious .. who would you have brought in to "shorten the rope" for AG and TE?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

                        I bolded a KEY statement. Were you in the practices? I'm guessing no. With limited capacity, Were you even at the games? I'm guessing most on here that is a no also. From watching the game on TV, were you able to see the coaching being done? I watched every game on TV. I sure don't remember seeing more than 2-3 minutes combined all year of any conversations on the bench because they were always focused on the court or the analysts or commercials. I sure can't make a judgement of what he did or didn't try to do. Heck, I'd argue that 99% of the people bitching on this board wouldn't be able to tell if an actual adjustment was made. The only thing they based their decisions on is whether more balls went in the hoop which has 100 factors to make that happen.

                        I'm just saying in a crazy year like this year, making major changes probably wouldn't be smart. Yes, he should make minor adjustments. We definitely saw SOME of those throughout the year. I felt like the defensive gameplan last night was amazing. Drake has an elite offense and we shut them down. Did we suck on offense? yes. Some blame goes to IB, but we shot like crap. Including shooting like crap on a lot of really good shots. Heck we missed 4 shots in a row, 1 foot from the basket with the game on the line. We missed 11 FT. Dexter bricked several wide open 3s. They were selling out on stopping Etienne and we didn't have enough people step up and hit shots to take advantage of that.
                        Glad to see you WERE in the practices so that you can be the be-all and end-all for this discussion.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

                          I bolded a KEY statement. Were you in the practices? I'm guessing no. With limited capacity, Were you even at the games? I'm guessing most on here that is a no also. From watching the game on TV, were you able to see the coaching being done? I watched every game on TV. I sure don't remember seeing more than 2-3 minutes combined all year of any conversations on the bench because they were always focused on the court or the analysts or commercials. I sure can't make a judgement of what he did or didn't try to do. Heck, I'd argue that 99% of the people bitching on this board wouldn't be able to tell if an actual adjustment was made. The only thing they based their decisions on is whether more balls went in the hoop which has 100 factors to make that happen.

                          I'm just saying in a crazy year like this year, making major changes probably wouldn't be smart. Yes, he should make minor adjustments. We definitely saw SOME of those throughout the year. I felt like the defensive gameplan last night was amazing. Drake has an elite offense and we shut them down. Did we suck on offense? yes. Some blame goes to IB, but we shot like crap. Including shooting like crap on a lot of really good shots. Heck we missed 4 shots in a row, 1 foot from the basket with the game on the line. We missed 11 FT. Dexter bricked several wide open 3s. They were selling out on stopping Etienne and we didn't have enough people step up and hit shots to take advantage of that.
                          Unless you are in the practices or on or very close to the bench you never actually "see" the coaching and, of course, that applies to 99.9% of the fans and observers. And even if you saw the coaching the real test is can you see the impact of the coaching and that is the play you see on the floor. And yes I can see that, although I admit my eyes aren't what they used to be.

                          I do think that HCIB did make some effective in game adjustments on the defensive end pretty regularly. I liked the way he was willing to make those defensive changes and for the most part I think they were effective and generally I thought our defense was pretty good. I also like how he used his time outs for the most part. However, as regards the offense I was not impressed nor could I really detect much impact from whatever coaching decisions and actions were being made, if any. It remains to be seen whether or HCIB has the goods to get the offense fixed.
                          Last edited by 1972Shocker; March 19, 2021, 11:02 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by GreatWhiteBuffalo View Post

                            Glad to see you WERE in the practices so that you can be the be-all and end-all for this discussion.
                            I'm not the one making any definitive statements about whether adjustments were or weren't made. So whether i was there or not doesn't matter.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

                              I'm not the one making any definitive statements about whether adjustments were or weren't made. So whether i was there or not doesn't matter.
                              LOL. Ok, Chief. I made the statement that it looked like it was the same offense as all season. You are the one who took it to the extreme of excusing the lack of sets because of a "not normal" year. You took the "moral high ground" of calling me out for not being at the practices, but when I turn the tables on you it suddenly "doesn't matter." Get over yourself. I offered reasons why WSU didn't improve, you chose to excuse the coach because of lack of normalcy.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 1972Shocker View Post

                                Unless you are in the practices or on or very close to the bench you never actually "see" the coaching and, of course, that applies to 99.9% of the fans and observers so that goes without saying. And even if you saw the coaching the real test is can you see the impact of the coaching and that is the play you see on the floor. And yes I can see that, although I admit my eyes aren't what they used to be.

                                I do think that HCIB did make some effective in game adjustments on the defensive end pretty regularly. I liked the way he was willing to make those defensive changes and for the most part I think they were effective and generally I thought our defense was pretty good. I also like how he used he time outs for the most part. However, as regards the offense I was not impressed nor could I really detect much impact from whatever coaching decisions and actions were being made, if any. It remains to be seen whether or HCIB has the goods to get the offense fixed.
                                This is a very fair statement. I just think the overreaction, considering how much we exceeded expectations this year, is a little embarrassing for the fanbase. We won the Fing league (Marshall never did that). We went to the tourney from the AAC (something Marshall only did 1 out of the 2 years (last year was a toss up if we would have made it). Yet we have people on here saying that a couple bad games saying we have tanked our program forever and the entire athletic department needs to be fired. Seriously. The amount of people that only remember the good times from Marshall is amazing. We lost to 13 seed Marshall with a freaking first round draft pick on the team.

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