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Wichita State vs. Temple Game Thread 2-7-21

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  • Originally posted by MikeKennedyRulZ View Post
    Lot's of negativity on here after a win. Winning conference games is really tough! Everyone knows your tendencies and your weaknesses. Especially this year when there really is no home court advantage to speak of. The Shox are still 11-4 overall and 7-2 in conference. Personally better than I thought they would be at this point. UH and Memphis lost to Tulsa twice! SMU lost to Cincy. What are the Shox bad conference losses thus far? Have the games been close? Yes. Has rebounding been bad? Yes. But this team has found ways to win and good teams have to do that, especially in conference.

    Stay the course. Don't get too high or too low. Enjoy the ride.
    WSU is coming into their schedule where it is either "put-up or shut-up". We will know a lot more about this team in 2 weeks.

    Comment


    • Still not ready to give up on Bilau. The man plays 10 minutes a month. You can't expect greatness or comfort with that. He didn't look great this game, but we've also seen games he's had extended minutes where he was our best big. Court time matters and he isn't getting it. Asbjorn struggled with the same thing. He'd get a few random minutes and look iffy, but the few times he was given extended minutes he looked much better and settled in. He's been great this year playing regularly. JB still has way more upside than Mo and Poor Bear.

      Not defending just the three point line end of game was dumb. And I've seen teams do it at the high school and middle school levels. It's not rocket surgery.

      This team still has so much unrealized potential and it's a shame we probably won't see it. We're always better when the ball is shared and we have movement. We're seeing less of that most games and that needs to change if we want any chance of beating the top teams in the conference. We have the ability to do that, I'm just not sure we will.
      Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
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      • I think that making long term projections on this year, for anything, is tough. Nothing about it is normal. WSU has had so many changes and postponments and no chance to settle in prior to the season. It's like we bailed out before we latched our parachute and are still getting it on while we are falling so we can pull the rip-cord.

        And we're STILL top 100 at worst.

        Anyone coming here insinuating that WSU and the AAC are below the Valley is an effing troll and a moron. I don't know if the Valley will get 2 teams. If they do, great.

        But....

        The Valley could get 4 teams to 1 AAC team and no one here would want to go back to the Valley. A statistical anomoly (in this of all years), means precisely dick.
        "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!

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        • Originally posted by WeWillShockU View Post

          I thought Trey might have been chosen as well. His best game this year. For all the complaints about the game last night we had 4 guys in double figures for scoring and only had 9 turnovers. Mo had 7 rebounds. I watched the game last night after I got home. I thought we played pretty well. We did have some early 3s by Monzy and Rickey but the guys continue to find a way to win.
          The assist totals are not indicative of a good team game. A few guys performed well individually. Lots of room for team improvement.

          Comment


          • To say the rebounding in the Temple game was disappointing is an understatement. After a stretch of 3 out of 4 games with a defensive rebound rate above 72%, this was WSU's worst defensive rebounding performance of the year, only corralling 58% of available Temple misses. I was curious exactly what broke down in that area so I revisited the game and took notes on most of Temple's offensive rebounds.
            • Rebound 1 18:43 1st Half: Mo boxes out his man but the Temple player pushes him under the basket then goes up and over for the rebound. While the effort was there if he had anticipated the shot and initiated the box out outside the lane he probably draws a foul or gets an easy rebound.
            • Rebound 2 17:29 1st Half: Gilbert stands with his hands on his hips watching the post player make his move. He never turns around to box out and his man grabs an easy offensive rebound.
            • Rebound 3 12:03 1st Half: Mo boxes out well, gets shoved in the back with no call, Jackson and/or Mo appear to have it in hand but the ball somehow bounces off their hands out of bounds.
            • Rebound 4 10:33 1st Half: Good defense by Porter causes an airball on a tough jumper that drops right in the Temple players hands. Mostly bad luck but Monzy did get buried under the basket.
            • Rebound 5 6:45 1st Half: Mo/Trey get mixed up on a defensive assignment. Both guys guard the ball handler and leave a man open to run to the basket to rebound the shot. I put this on Mo because he didn't need to switch onto the ballhandler and put Trey in a bad spot to try and box out.
            • Rebounds 6, 7 6:15 1st Half: Dexter puts a hand on the guy but then doesn't complete the box out by butting his backside into him allowing the guy to go in for an easy offense rebound. He misses the shot but now it's a scramble and Forrester is there to pick it up and lay it in.
            • Rebound 8 3:01 1st Half: This rebound started when Council overplayed his man to the middle way too far allowing him to just drive straight to the basket from the wing. Mo is forced to leave his man to help and no one steps in to help box the free man. Trey also got shoved in the back with no call.
            • Rebound 8 1:24 1st Half: We play great defense for 30 seconds to force a tough shot but Gilbert inexplicably runs under the basket instead of boxing his man out and the ball goes right to his man.
            • Rebound 9 16:06 2nd Half: We're in a zone and Gilbert doesn't turn around and put a body on the guy in his area who grabs the rebound after it bounces on the rim like 15 times.
            • Rebounds 10, 11 13:03 2nd Half: This one is off a free throw. Bilau doesn't do a good enough job of boxing out or pursuing the ball. Council also fails to pursue the ball aggressively and it turns into a loose ball that Jackon's man, who Jackson didn't do a great job of boxing out either, grabs it. Bilau has a nice contest which causes the miss which turns into another loose ball and the Temple player happens to be bigger and has inside position on Ricky for an easy board. Still has to make a tough basket over Bilau and Council but does.
            • Rebounds 12-14 :10 2nd half: Monzy does a good job contesting the three pointer but turns around and watches the shot instead of boxing out.

            I'm missing a few rebounds. My guess is there are a couple possessions where I didn't note multiple offensive rebounds because it just became a scramble after the first rebound and miss.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
              Still not ready to give up on Bilau. The man plays 10 minutes a month. You can't expect greatness or comfort with that. He didn't look great this game, but we've also seen games he's had extended minutes where he was our best big. Court time matters and he isn't getting it. Asbjorn struggled with the same thing. He'd get a few random minutes and look iffy, but the few times he was given extended minutes he looked much better and settled in. He's been great this year playing regularly. JB still has way more upside than Mo and Poor Bear.
              i have heard from multiple sources that JB isn’t a self-motivated worker. He has a lot of natural talent but lacks dedication in putting in extra work. He does sound like a long term project, provided he develops the want to. Practice may be the best place for him to develop while that happens.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                i have heard from multiple sources that JB isn’t a self-motivated worker. He has a lot of natural talent but lacks dedication in putting in extra work. He does sound like a long term project, provided he develops the want to. Practice may be the best place for him to develop while that happens.
                It sounds like we need a Van Vleet type player to get him motivated. Maybe Tyson Etienne or someone like that.

                Comment


                • While watching the replay for the defensive rebounding breakdowns I also made note of egregious defensive break downs.
                  • 11:17 1st Half: Jackson leaves his man to double the ball handler for some reason and his man cuts to the basket for an easy layup.
                  • 8:10 1st Half: RC4 closes out too hard causing a defensive breakdown. Porter loses his man in the corner who misses a wide open three.
                  • 7:28 1st Half: After a missed foul and a missed layup off an offensive rebound Temple's Forrester sprints past all shockers, most notably Seymour, and we have to foul him to prevent an easy layup.
                  • 6:45 1st Half: Trey/Mo get mixed up on pick and roll coverage. Mo helps onto Trey's guy for no reason which puts Trey in bad position to box out and we give up an offensive rebound.
                  • 6:20 1st Half: Mo/Gilbert get mixed up in pick and roll. Both guys end up guarding the ball hander. Tyson steps in with the help defense but the roller finds Tyson's made in the corner for an open three that luckily missed.
                  • :20 1st Half: Temple posts up their guard on Tyson. Monzy does a good job of helping down initially but then goes back to guard his man and Tyson never recovers fully back to his man. Easy layup.
                  • 13:05 2nd Half: Mo/Gilbert pick and roll. Mo seems to just fall asleep on the roll man and has to foul him to prevent a layup.
                  • 11:39 2nd Half: Porter defends his man well on the drive but Monzy loses sight of his man who gets wide open for a three pointer that bounces of every part of the rim AND the backboard then drops in.
                  • 4:09 2nd Half: Tyson doesn't stop the ball handler in transition who just dribbles by him for the layup.
                  • 3:25 2nd Half: Gilbert plays terrible transition defense and gives up a layup.
                  • 2:40 2nd Half: Gilbert is just staring at the ball and has no idea where is man is who just cuts to the basket for an easy layup.
                  • 2:07 2nd Half: Gilbert gets way out of position and his man is left wide open for three. This is the bank in which, of course it banked in, but the guy was wide open due to poor defense.
                  • :20 2nd Half: Jackson/Wade get switched up on what might have been an illegal screen. Jackson ends up on the guy and lets the man drive by him on the baseline resulting in a Trey Wade foul although the guy pretty much just jumped into Trey

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
                    Still not ready to give up on Bilau. The man plays 10 minutes a month. You can't expect greatness or comfort with that. He didn't look great this game, but we've also seen games he's had extended minutes where he was our best big. Court time matters and he isn't getting it. Asbjorn struggled with the same thing. He'd get a few random minutes and look iffy, but the few times he was given extended minutes he looked much better and settled in. He's been great this year playing regularly. JB still has way more upside than Mo and Poor Bear.

                    Not defending just the three point line end of game was dumb. And I've seen teams do it at the high school and middle school levels. It's not rocket surgery.

                    This team still has so much unrealized potential and it's a shame we probably won't see it. We're always better when the ball is shared and we have movement. We're seeing less of that most games and that needs to change if we want any chance of beating the top teams in the conference. We have the ability to do that, I'm just not sure we will.
                    One of the things I noticed during my rewatch was that Bilau wasn't as bad as I had initially thought.

                    I do find it interesting that before the game people were calling for Bilau to get minutes because a) he couldn't be as bad as Mo/Poor Bear and b) he needs game minutes to develop. His performance, especially compared to Mo/Poor Bear, wasn't good. I can see why he doesn't get more minutes. However, I didn't expect him to come out and be better than those guys so I'm not going to give up on him after one lackluster performance. In fact, getting some more extended minutes in this game might be good for his development the rest of the season. We'll see.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                      i have heard from multiple sources that JB isn’t a self-motivated worker. He has a lot of natural talent but lacks dedication in putting in extra work. He does sound like a long term project, provided he develops the want to. Practice may be the best place for him to develop while that happens.
                      Mike and Dave alluded to this in the pre-game show when a question about JB's playing time was asked. Not self-motivated = not putting in extra time. Not going to take minutes that way.

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