Rebounding Huge Weakness-

[Shockm]

In theory, if guys who rebounded at a high rate per minute like Jackson and Council get more minutes we should see improvement.

IMO, Gilbert and Wade were two of the biggest “didn’t bother to turn around and find a guy to check out” offenders. No one on the team was completely immune but I noticed it the most from those two, and probably Monzie too.

Monzie got better about it as the season went on. Hopefully it’s a point of emphasis this off-season not just for him but the entire team.

On paper, Pleasant grabbed about as many boards per game as Wade. God bless him if he doesn’t just stare at the ball as a shot goes up and his defender runs by him for a vicious put back dunk.

As WuShock 16 said above in #216 , "God help us if we aren’t better, seeing as we were like 257th last season."

There are holes that can be shot into each of these arguments, and it's not worth it to go there again. Whoever's fault it was, last year, as a TEAM, we "sucked" at rebounding,

I just hope that either our coaches corrected the problem or the players are better at it or something else that makes us a better rebounding team this year. It was one of the analytic reasons that proved (now that the RPI isn't viewed as important) that we weren't as good as the (close wins and not wins and losses) record that we had. The analytics are what help a team get into the NCAA Tournament, and last year, we almost didn't make the Tournament, and ended up with a high seed, even though we won the American Athletic Conference.

Rebounding and defense are Super Important in the new analytics. I am optimistic that this is a new year, and we have a new team, and we will be better at rebounding, and defense.

[ShockingButTrue]

As WuShock 16 said above in #216 , "God help us if we aren’t better, seeing as we were like 257th last season."

There are holes that can be shot into each of these arguments, and it's not worth it to go there again. Whoever's fault it was, last year, as a TEAM, we "sucked" at rebounding,

I just hope that either our coaches corrected the problem or the players are better at it or something else that makes us a better rebounding team this year. It was one of the analytic reasons that proved (now that the RPI isn't viewed as important) that we weren't as good as the (close wins and not wins and losses) record that we had. The analytics are what help a team get into the NCAA Tournament, and last year, we almost didn't make the Tournament, and ended up with a high seed, even though we won the American Athletic Conference.

Rebounding and defense are Super Important in the new analytics. I am optimistic that this is a new year, and we have a new team, and we will be better at rebounding, and defense.

Well said.

Maybe if we improve our rebounding stats we might win the conference, again. Maybe we won't, and still win the conference, again.

No need to preach to the choir the importance of defense.

[60Shock]

We will be larger at the 5 position and at least at the start of the season, and hopefully throughout the year, we will be physically healthier as well. This and more experience, and the emphasis hopefully being placed on rebounding, should all result in significant improvement in the rebounding area. Should being the key word.

[pie n eye]

I just hope that either our coaches corrected the problem or the players are better at it or something else that makes us a better rebounding team this year. It was one of the analytic reasons that proved (now that the RPI isn't viewed as important) that we weren't as good as the (close wins and not wins and losses) record that we had. The analytics are what help a team get into the NCAA Tournament, and last year, we almost didn't make the Tournament, and ended up with a high seed, even though we won the American Athletic Conference.

Rebounding and defense are Super Important in the new analytics. I am optimistic that this is a new year, and we have a new team, and we will be better at rebounding, and defense.

It’s hard to look at the players we added and say that rebounding wasn’t prioritized. From Grant to Ricks, all the guys either have good rebounding numbers or are said to be good rebounders.

Based on their words last year the coaching staff was aware of and tried to improve our rebounding during the season. I would say that it did improve, how much so is up for debate.

I don’t think defense and rebounding is any more or less important in the “new analytics” (they aren’t really new). There are exceptions of course but the best teams are typically good in all facets of the game.

The team earned the regular season championship and took care of its own business to avoid any covid cancellations during conference but winning the league didn’t provide the same benefits last year as it would in a normal year.

We didn’t play SMU at all. We only had one shot at Memphis. Again, through no fault of our own, but those three missed opportunities were a double edged sword. They played a significant role in winning the conference championship but robbed us of three quality win opportunities in a shortened season where such opportunities were in limited supply.

It was just a strange year overall, an outlier. If we win the league this year we won’t be a bubble team.

[TrackSuitAndTie]

Based on their words last year the coaching staff was aware of and tried to improve our rebounding during the season. I would say that it did improve, how much so is up for debate.

The Houston game showed that the team could rebound when it wanted to. Heck, our offensive rebounding numbers showed that we had good rebounders on the team (Monzy especially was good at getting O rebs). I think our added depth and athleticism will help the coaching staff ensure that last season was an aberration in the rebounding category. If a player isn't blocking out we have other guys we can put in without a major drop in all-around talent.

[Shockm]

The Houston game showed that the team could rebound when it wanted to. Heck, our offensive rebounding numbers showed that we had good rebounders on the team (Monzy especially was good at getting O rebs). I think our added depth and athleticism will help the coaching staff ensure that last season was an aberration in the rebounding category. If a player isn't blocking out we have other guys we can put in without a major drop in all-around talent.

You are right. The one thing I might add regarding Houston and other teams, often, when our player couldn't get the rebound in the Houston game, we not only blocked out, but we also were giving great effort to the ball and tipping it (while that guy couldn't reach the rebound with both hands, they tipped so another Shocker could rebound it). That's what Houston does all the time.

[Shockm]

It’s hard to look at the players we added and say that rebounding wasn’t prioritized.

I would agree that the coaches have attempted to solve our rebounding deficiencies. I still think that at times, last year, our rebounding effort wasn't as good as it could have been. But this is a new year, with new players, and we will be bette

I don’t think defense and rebounding is any more or less important in the “new analytics” (they aren’t really new). There are exceptions of course but the best teams are typically good in all facets of the game.

I'm certainly not an analytics expert and there are several types of analytic ranking systems. But BPI is one of them, and it ranks defensive and offensive efficiency for all teams.
What goes into BPI?

Each team's BPI rating represents its projected point differential against an average Division I team on a neutral court. The rating is composed of a predicted offensive and defensive rating, which is on the same net-points scale. Defensive and offensive rebounds go hand in hand with defensive and offensive efficiency ratings.

[ShockingButTrue]

WSU finished 55th in Rebs per game, tied with the Chickens and Kentucky, but ahead of Michigan St., Gonazga (60th), Michigan, and National champs Baylor (107th). I haven't reviewed too deeply, but I'm guessing all of those teams shot the ball better than the Shocks.

In steals WSU was 217th. In blocked shots WSU was 110th (tied with Bradley).

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics

[pie n eye]

I would agree that the coaches have attempted to solve our rebounding deficiencies. I still think that at times, last year, our rebounding effort wasn't as good as it could have been. But this is a new year, with new players, and we will be bette




I'm certainly not an analytics expert and there are several types of analytic ranking systems. But BPI is one of them, and it ranks defensive and offensive efficiency for all teams.
What goes into BPI?

Each team's BPI rating represents its projected point differential against an average Division I team on a neutral court. The rating is composed of a predicted offensive and defensive rating, which is on the same net-points scale. Defensive and offensive rebounds go hand in hand with defensive and offensive efficiency ratings.

The point I was trying to make is that efficiency based ranking systems have been around for a while and WSU teams under Gregg Marshall were typically been ranked highly. Last years team was good not great in those metrics and I think that’s fair based on my eye test.

Regardless, the goal of any team is to be good as possible and win as many games as possible. The formula to achieve those goals is essentially the same now as it ever was - strive to excel in all facets of the game be it offense, defense, rebounding, etc. Do that and the rankings and other stuff will take care of itself.

[TheShocktocles]

I hope this year team Defends and Rebonds better. Right now the Frontline reputation is that they are soft. Go Shocks.

[WuTheOne]

I hope this year team Defends and Rebonds better. Right now the Frontline reputation is that they are soft. Go Shocks.

I've heard that Joe is Pleasant.

[TheShocktocles]

Ditto.

[t7017s]

We didn't have a rebounding problem last year... plenty of guys going after boards. Sometimes to many. Our guys would tipped balls off one another and out of bounds more than usual it felt like last year. What we had last year imo, was a boxing out problem, thus why we secured so few even though we had plenty of guys going after, and getting hands on them. We were also in the most dominate conference fwhen it came to the boards and that shouldn't be overlooked.

[TheShocktocles]

We didn't have a rebounding problem last year... plenty of guys going after boards. Sometimes to many. Our guys would tipped balls off one another and out of bounds more than usual it felt like last year. What we had last year imo, was a boxing out problem, thus why we secured so few even though we had plenty of guys going after, and getting hands on them. We were also in the most dominate conference fwhen it came to the boards and that shouldn't be overlooked.

Sigh!!!!!! I am not just saying the shockers were soft on the glass without reason. And I am not challenging your opinion on why our guys did not rebound as well as shocker teams in the past. The reason I say they are soft and have a soft reputation is because of what I saw last year. Here are the examples that I recall that happened on more than 1 occasion.

1. The Shocks play good defense, the other team miss the shot and our guys don't block out and just stand there and let the other team players just go get the ball and score.

2. The Shocks play good defense, the other team miss the shot and All butterfingers Morris Udeze can't secure the rebound and fumbles it out of bounds.

3. The Shocks play good defense, the other team miss the shot and All Energy Monzy Jackson grabs the rebound but is bumped and falls down and is called for traveling.

4. The Shocks play good defense, the other team miss the shot and our players fight each other and fumble the ball to the other team and they end up scoring.

I am big shocker fan. But I try and be truthful. I love the grit of our team , but if they want to do more than what they did last year, they are going to have to improve on defense and REBOUNDING. Go Shocks.

[Dan]

Sigh!!!!!! I am not just saying the shockers were soft on the glass without reason. And I am not challenging your opinion on why our guys did not rebound as well as shocker teams in the past. The reason I say they are soft and have a soft reputation is because of what I saw last year. Here are the examples that I recall that happened on more than 1 occasion.

1. The Shocks play good defense, the other team miss the shot and our guys don't block out and just stand there and let the other team players just go get the ball and score.

2. The Shocks play good defense, the other team miss the shot and All butterfingers Morris Udeze can't secure the rebound and fumbles it out of bounds.

3. The Shocks play good defense, the other team miss the shot and All Energy Monzy Jackson grabs the rebound but is bumped and falls down and is called for traveling.

4. The Shocks play good defense, the other team miss the shot and our players fight each other and fumble the ball to the other team and they end up scoring.

I am big shocker fan. But I try and be truthful. I love the grit of our team , but if they want to do more than what they did last year, they are going to have to improve on defense and REBOUNDING. Go Shocks.

I think that's why we recruited some bigs