Coach Gregg Marshall Investigation

[StunningSteve]

The point is... Many of you are reaching at straws to define acts you didn't see and have NO CLUE what context they make have been wrapped in (or if they even happened at all). In my case, when I headbutted my friend it was because we used to do that when we played football together as kids (and thats how we celebrated). If you didn't know us and you saw us fooling around, you'd be arguing I should be fired.

[shock]

The point is... Many of you are reaching at straws to define acts you didn't see and have NO CLUE what context they make have been wrapped in (or if they even happened at all).

We all are. With no news from the university, we are left with no recourse except to try to rationalize it to the best of our ability. Nobody here is in the wrong because the right hasn’t yet been set. I generally agree with you on this topic, but right now BOBB and Aargh are just as valid and right. There is nothing to gain in belligerence, and nothing to say that hasn’t been said in any of the 3309 posts on the topic.

[SB Shock]

The point is... Many of you are reaching at straws to define acts you didn't see and have NO CLUE what context they make have been wrapped in (or if they even happened at all).

That is a fair point, because we really don't know exactly what happened because the results of the investigation hasn't been released. Everybody just blathers on and on. But at the same time you are also doing the same thing just in the opposite direction. The difference is there is media coverage from a variety of sources who are reporting various things did happen that would never be tolerated in the work place.

There has not been anybody come out on the record and say none of this never happened. If anybody from those time periods did that - this would be over. If Lindstead when asked by the media had said "No, me and marshall were just playing around" - it would be over. But he responded with a no-comment. If Baker during his podcast interview had come out and said nothing happened - it would be over.

Now since Marshall has went on the public record and said it is all untrue - it has now become a black and white issue. Did anything happen or not? If it did, Marshall is liar and will have to be fired, since nuance doesn't matter any more.

If it didn't happen, then Marshall should use his lawyers to seek full legal recourse against all those in the media who spread lies about him and he should seek out the mole in the athletic department who went to the media and choke him. He might even send Patty Beamer a present.

[Shockm]

Ralph Miller had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people until he stopped coaching.
Gene Smithson had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people until after coaching.
Gregg Marshall had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people.
Scott Thompson had a reputation as a nice coach. He didn't win very many games but he was liked by a good number of people.
Gary Thompson had a reputation as a nice coach. He didn't win very many games but he was liked by a good number of people.

Anyone see a pattern here. A lot of coaches who win aren't well liked until after their career.

[shock]

Ralph Miller had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people until he stopped coaching.
Gene Smithson had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people until after coaching.
Gregg Marshall had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people.
Scott Thompson had a reputation as a nice coach. He didn't win very many games but he was liked by a good number of people.
Gary Thompson had a reputation as a nice coach. He didn't win very many games but he was liked by a good number of people.

Anyone see a pattern here. A lot of coaches who win aren't well liked until after their career.

Was Randy Smithson a tough coach?

[asiseeit]

Players intentionally commit very hard flagrant fouls all the time with the worst
punishment usually being an ejection. Sounds like SM committed one in practice
and got slapped upside his head for it. Was there an injury reported or did he just
get his feelings hurt? Show me an injury report or fully exonerate GM. I, for one,
hope that is the final outcome. This sensitivity training crap is just that. Set that
precedent and all coaches better be prepared for it.

[Stickboy46]

Players intentionally commit very hard flagrant fouls all the time with the worst
punishment usually being an ejection. Sounds like SM committed one in practice
and got slapped upside his head for it. Was there an injury reported or did he just
get his feelings hurt? Show me an injury report or fully exonerate GM. I, for one,
hope that is the final outcome. This sensitivity training crap is just that. Set that
precedent and all coaches better be prepared for it.

Saying it's ok for coaches to punch players as long as they dont get injured isn't a precedent I want set by WSU.

[SB Shock]

Show me an injury report or fully exonerate GM. .

Marshall said this didn't happen, so you no longer have to try and rationalize whether it was acceptable or not. You only have to determine who is the liar - Morris or Marshall.

[Good News]

Hey guys, remember that one week when we were discussing if Eric Stevenson was better than Ron Baker? Good times

I laughed out loud on that one. Bravo, sir.

As far as this thread - I've read most of it and haven't seen anyone address another possibility. I'm not saying it is likely, just possible:

Even though he was publicly messaging how happy and content he was in Wichita, inside Marshall might have been at a point where he was ready for a new challenge with his kids out of school. We know almost certainly that he would have taken Texas if offered and Alabama was tempting enough to explore it.

IF - big if - the allegations are overblown, he would obviously know it and know what the investigation was going to show. Isn't it possible that he came to the conclusion that he didn't want to be where he wasn't wanted, and to take an approach of "okay, fine - screw you, I will leave and go build up a 3rd program into a national contender, but you're going to pay me first"? Which would also explain his public statement and denial of wrongdoing and absences from practice.

Short of outright proof that he was actually assaulting people in the clearest definition of the word, you've got a lot of wood to chop if you want to convince me that he's permanently stained by this. He has a multi-decade record of taking small conference programs that don't regularly produce NCAA tournament appearances or high-level professional players and turning them into programs that do both on a perpetual basis. With a clean program and ZERO problems with the NCAA. That ability is a gold mine for any school, and there are plenty on the outside looking in. Plus he has a significant number of former players backing him. I don't like the silence or statements from the more recent players any more than anyone else, but the facts are that it is currently far from unanimous.

I'm not saying it's right or even offering an opinion - just saying that out of 350 D1 programs, 100+ of which have fan bases that would do almost anything to see their programs in the tournament discussion every single year, there has to be an AD who is totally willing to buy low and realize that in a culture where attention spans are less than 5 minutes long his fan base isn't going to give a damn about some allegations from the distant past after they're celebrating their 2nd Sweet Sixteen in 3 years after a decade-long drought of no tournament appearances. Not to mention the pandemic effects on athletic budgets making that TV money way more valuable than it was 2 years ago.

I mean, Larry Brown literally had ZERO track record of being able to run a clean program and be successful. Zero. If you hired him, you were basically mailing yourself an NCAA investigation/sanctions and doing the math on how many tournament checks you could cash before it arrived. But SMU hired him anyway. So unless there is Woody Hayes-level evidence against Marshall, I'm just not going to believe that he doesn't get a bona fide P5 opportunity within 2 years.

Flip it around - it's 2002 and we haven't been to the tournament since 1987. Marshall becomes available, and there's not clear evidence of assault. I think most people on this board would have said "give him whatever he needs and get him to sign on the line which is dotted".

Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong or any other opinion and am willing to listen to a counterargument. But I think that's what the facts are.

[pie n eye]

“We almost certainly know he would have taken the Texas job if offered”.

Really? Do we? If you’re making that statement then you must know Marshall personally or have 1 degree of separation to someone who does. If that’s the case then you should be able to find out exactly what’s going on with this current situation.

[Dan]

“We almost certainly know he would have taken the Texas job if offered”.

Really? Do we? If you’re making that statement then you must know Marshall personally or have 1 degree of separation to someone who does. If that’s the case then you should be able to find out exactly what’s going on with this current situation.

I agree with a lot of what is written, but also concur that the Texas job is not the gold mine some people think. It's a football school 1st, 2nd and 3rd. The boosters run the school, not the basketball coach. 3G would be way down on the pecking order there.

[asiseeit]

Why is it acceptable for a player who INTENTIONALLY commits a hard foul that could
and sometimes does injure another player just get ejected a game while a coach who
slaps or "punches" a player not resulting in any injury get his career ruined?

[Stickboy46]

Why is it acceptable for a player who INTENTIONALLY commits a hard foul that could
and sometimes does injure another player just get ejected a game while a coach who
slaps or "punches" a player not resulting in any injury get his career ruined?

Coach/Player Relationship =/= Player/Player relationship.

[Wuzee]

Ralph Miller had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people until he stopped coaching.
Gene Smithson had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people until after coaching.
Gregg Marshall had a reputation as a very tough coach. He won a whole lot of games and he was not liked by a good number of people.
Scott Thompson had a reputation as a nice coach. He didn't win very many games but he was liked by a good number of people.
Gary Thompson had a reputation as a nice coach. He didn't win very many games but he was liked by a good number of people.

Anyone see a pattern here. A lot of coaches who win aren't well liked until after their career.

Jesus Christ had a reputation as a nice coach. Jobu says he couldn't hit a curveball, but he was liked by a good number of people. He did go Bobby Knight on the money-changers' tables, though, so he probably would've lost his job and been unemployable except at the Juco level.

[wichshock65]

Is the coaches show still on Monday night?