WSU vs Creighton GAME THREAD

[forevershockerfan]

We outrebounded them 36-29 thanks to the warrior efforts of Carl Hall with 13. Both teams committed 11 turnovers.We made 19 throws to their 14. What the problem is? (a figure of speech with a twist of bad grammer) Creighton took higher % shots and made 42.6% and we clanked all night long whether the shots were open or not. They held us to 9 assists which reverts back to we just could not throw it in the ocean last night whether they were defending or not.

They penetrated better than us and established an inside presence which resulted in us facing foul trouble with Hall and Stutz. Actually, it was curtains when Hall was called for the mysterious 3rd foul. Mr Hall came to play and we wilted when he exited for a long duration. I think he did end up with 4 fouls, but man did we miss his presence on the court. Is is not uncommon to see teams in sports come off a torrid hot night to a dismal perfomance the next game. We seemed to refuse to work it in for high % but rather chose to fire away from 3 point land with little or no gains. However, losing to Creighton is more painful than any root canal I have ever faced and I think all of us in Shockerland are the same way, including our Coaches and Players even more so. Now we learn from this and get pick ourself off the floor and produce in the future. No time for licking our wounds and looking back even though it is human nature to do so. Now we get mad and understand an important battle was lost but the war is far from over.

[wufan]

Carl Hall had legendary effort last night and showed in keeping us in the game. Echineque totally over-powered Stutz. Murry was non-existent. I thought Ben Smith and Carl Hall did an excellent job guarding Doug McDermott! Kudos to them for that type of effort. Joe did a horrible job of guarding Antoine Young and I don't recall who was guarding Gibbs in the second half (Murry I think), but whomever it was missed the boat. This game could have been won if we would have pounded it inside. Stutz did miss too many shots, but he took too few. Only 2 of 6 from the lane. He should have had 10 interior shots minimum.

Carl Hall is my favorite Shocker in the last 20 years!

[ShockerFever]

I assume Toure has the flu.

Why do you assume this? Was this mentioned at some time and I missed it? That was a typical Toure game in big games. That's why you see none of the TM-can-do-know-wrong crowd here today. Let's not make excuses for what actually happened out there please.

No earthly idea why Murry fired up a bad shot from the corner with 30 to go on the clock, but that was the end of any chance we had.

Simple. No discipline. It happened in the MSU and UNI home games last year. It has already happened in the Temple game this year and it reared its ugly head again last night. What do those all have in common? Close games that ended in big, fat L's. Marshall just doesn't seem to instill enough discipline in certain players for whatever reason. When some players make bone-headed players, Marshall yanks them immediately. Other times, certain players will make absolutely atrocious mistakes and he keeps them out there. And that's why you'll continually see Toure Murry jack up retarded 3-pointers in final possessions of close games and David Kyles will continue to throw up half-hearted prayers after timeouts as the shot clock wanes. And this is why I can never be confident in this team coming back from a few points down in the final minutes. That Virginia Tech NIT game, which everyone fires back to me with, looks more and more like an aberration each and every day. I mean we had JT Durley of all people hitting a desperation 3 to get that one to OT. If that doesn't go down, it's an L. Who would have wanted JT to take a 3 pointer in that situation normally?

[ShockerFever]

Stutz should have pulled that ball away with his arm attached but he is just a big *****, if it had been Carl Hall, Youngs arm would have been broken.

That play really defined the game and was pretty embarrassing I must admit. That should NEVER happen.

[RoyalShock]

After digesting that performance overnight, I'll probably repeat what's already been said, but here goes anyway.

- We have no defenders who can keep a quick PG in front of them. Additionally, help defense is late.
- CU's defense was much improved over what little I've seen and heard about so far.
- Our shot selection was very, very poor, but that was partially due to the previous point.
- Marshall went too long with a lineup that wasn't producing for stretches in the 2nd half.
- Marshall must stop relying on media timeouts to stop an opponent's momentum.

Did anyone else notice the substitution pattern late in the game? Our senior, all-conference defensive player Murry, was getting subbed out in favor of freshman Cotton for defense. Is Cotton that much better on defense? Did Murry just need to catch his breath?

[SHOXAAC]

I want 3G to continue to be our coach, but I chuckle at some posters over time that regularly make statements like "I trust Marshall," whether it's about recruiting or player management, etc...Marshall is great for WSU, but he is no coach"K," or any facsimile of. I like his playing style. I like many of his set plays, but when it comes to managing a close game against a quality opponent, he trips over his zipper more than should be expected. Yes, our Shockers blew out a quality UNLV team last month thank GOD. If that game would have been close "I would not have had late game management TRUST in 3G." Step up your game coach.

[SHOXAAC]

After digesting that performance overnight, I'll probably repeat what's already been said, but here goes anyway.

- We have no defenders who can keep a quick PG in front of them. Additionally, help defense is late.
- CU's defense was much improved over what little I've seen and heard about so far.
- Our shot selection was very, very poor, but that was partially due to the previous point.
- Marshall went too long with a lineup that wasn't producing for stretches in the 2nd half.
- Marshall must stop relying on media timeouts to stop an opponent's momentum.

Did anyone else notice the substitution pattern late in the game? Our senior, all-conference defensive player Murry, was getting subbed out in favor of freshman Cotton for defense. Is Cotton that much better on defense? Did Murry just need to catch his breath?

Yea...why was 3G flipping Stutz and the beast. I don't get that. Hall is trusted much more than Stutz on both ends of the floor.

I just love how Hall gets after it...all the time. He plays like X & Jamar Howard. I would love for this to catch on with other players.

[forevershockerfan]

No doubt Creighton is an improved team. We have to first establish Stutz and Hall inside. However, when we play the bluejays later, I want them huge grins they had late yesterday to become loser frowns. Somehow, some way, Stutz has to quit getting in foul trouble. Toure' is the mid-range slasher, and his 3 point shooting is not near consistent enough to rely on at all. Stutz can make the 3's, but I want him inside where he belongs. The law of averages demand we do these things to be successful.

Hall and Stutz can jointly and literally dominate in the Valley. However, each and every Valley team already knows that too,(and their kinfolk even also know this) and will do all schemes possible to get us to rely first and foremost on the 3's as we did last night, rather than allowing our 2 players the success they know is possible. Make the extra passes and efforts to establish them first and foremost. The old adage is--"if you live by the 3, you will eventually go down by the 3. Last night, we were exploited some but our woes were also quite self inflicting.

Creighton will lose other games in the Valley, but not many. Let's hope since we are both 1-1 now that we have a better record at the end than them and all other Valley teams.

[wufan]

In regards to last night:

Execution was bad.
Effort, for the majority of the game, was quite good. That's something that DOES need to be noted. This team WANTED to win and put forth the effort. The basketball IQ, however, went out the window.

[Kung Wu]

If SWMO pulls out a conference title, I am going to puke all over myself.

[ShockTalk]

In regards to last night:

Execution was bad.
Effort, for the majority of the game, was quite good. That's something that DOES need to be noted. This team WANTED to win and put forth the effort. The basketball IQ, however, went out the window.

Not sure I agree with this. Not doubting they wanted to win, but many times, bad execution is linked to bad effort. Sometimes, that bad effort is not doing enough physically when you are capable of doing it. Sometimes times, due to between the ears. If you have good basketball IQ, the only reason for not applying it is....effort. Worse, like tonight, both happen. That is, unless, you just feel CU is simply that much better. I don't. This egg was laid by most everyone on the Shocker bench not named Carl Hall.

[ShockerFever]

Did anyone else notice the substitution pattern late in the game? Our senior, all-conference defensive player Murry, was getting subbed out in favor of freshman Cotton for defense. Is Cotton that much better on defense? Did Murry just need to catch his breath?

The few times I paid attention to Murry on defense was after he completely lost his man resulting in a Creighton score.

Cotton should have just been subbed out for both sides of the ball, if anything. Cotton contributes to less turnovers and less forced shots than what Murry does on the offensive end and by now, may actually have a better shooting percentage from 3 and inside of 3.

[mattdalt]

I think Marshall is great for the program, and I think I would like him to continue for a long time here at WSU, having said that, (curb your enthusiasm), I sure would like to see some signature wins. I think his best year at Winthrop was known for "almost" winning several very close games on the road, NC, UW, maybe another one or two. But where are the signature WINS? I think he can figure it out, but not sure the current roster, e.g. seniors, are capable.

Whomever referenced Carl Hall's effort to X AND Jamar, stop it! Do not ever mention jamar in the same breath, sentence, rooom, whatever, as X.

Having said that, CH was a beast, and I sure felt good every time he touched the ball!

[proshox]

Sometimes teams need a little luck. A lot of shots just missed, a few free were off, and a few unfortunate calls killed any chance for luck to go WSU's way. Key takes:

1) the shooting foul called against TM with 1:10 was a killer. I thought his steal was pretty clean considering it was basically a scrum. The shockers struggled to score all night against a set defense and that was going to be a run out down three. Also, the fact that it was a shooting foul hurt because the lead grew.

2) sometimes I feel like we don't foul when we need to.... Don't let guys get easy lay-ups. Sometimes you get beat an can afford to reach out and foul and try again later. I know this sounds backwards, but in there are smart fouls...

3) I believe in momentum and I watched Eddie Sutton kill it a number of times with liberal use of time-outs. It isn't 3G's style, but I wish he would stop relying on his players to always fix it on their own. Basketball allows for coaches to impact the game much more than other sports....

4) overall the defense face WSU a chance to win... I think CU had many season lows on Saturday.

5) too many on this board act like WSU has blow every big game thus far. I would argue that the UNLV game was as big or bigger than this game if WSU does not win the tournament in March.

[proshox]

I think Jamar was a freak warrior.. Not near as skilled as X, but he was a rare combination of jumping, quickness, qnd strength...