State of the Basketball Program

[WichitaStateGuy]

I appreciate WIchitaStateGuy. Will watch quotation requirements in the future. I agree on your sentiment about 6 players leaving, it is worrisome. But I do not believe that all of these comments are that much different than mine. I also agree that we could use an explanation. Too many assumptions are made and comments are made on what needs to happen to the coach, players and announcers, etc.. As an example, I like Mike Kennedy. You do not, that's fine, but don't berate the guy for doing his job on a public forum. I don't think you would like it, if someone didn't like the job you did and then went on Facebook to tell everyone. I do appreciate your apology - stand up guy (no sarcasm). Hey I'm learning at a fast pace. Also, I disagreed with ShockerFever on one thing (playing with "big dogs".

Cheers. The three dots in the bottom of every post—click it. A box will appear. Click “quote.” It will link the quote you are replying to.

[1989]

2017-2018: Austin Reaves, CJ Keyser
2018-2019: Ricky Torres, Rod Brown, Chance Moore

I’m sorry but the evidence isn’t really there to support “mass exodus” are a multi-year trend.

The evidence isn’t there to support an argument of a “mass exodus” trend because that narrative is a straw man point that no one is making.

It’s not about a “mass exodus”. It’s more about several key, talented players who were building blocks leaving our program and hurting the continuity that a program like WSU needs to succeed. This turnover didn’t come from nowhere. The coaching staff needs to pinpoint the cause and ensure this doesn’t happen again.

[NCAABound]

I don't put my hopes into 18-20 year olds...so I'm not devastated. But I am disappointed we will have to wait AT LEAST another couple of years to be a national player. And 2 more years of hearing we are young.

[Dr. D]

Cheers. The three dots in the bottom of every post—click it. A box will appear. Click “quote.” It will link the quote you are replying to.

Gotcha - never too old to learn

[Kashman]

As far as "upgrades", and this might be coming out of my a**

Shamet/Reaves were replaced by Dex/Burton. Shamet got drafted so you take your pick who replaced Reaves. I would take Dex/Burton everytime over Reaves.

Torres/Brown/Moore were replaced by Wade/Bilau/Sherfield. We all know Wade and Grant are upgrades and i will go out on a limb and say Bilau will be too.

Time will tell if the players will be better than what was lost.

Something needed to change unless we are all cool finishing mid pack in the AAC and being a bubble team.

23-8 is not a bad year and we were a legit top 25 team. Right up until we had a guy jack up 3 on a fast break, with just over a minute left, up 9 at UCONN. That almost lost us the game and was the hidden turning point of the season IMO. GM didn't trust Buton to handle the ball because of his FT shooting at the time. GS is a better FT shooter but the moment proved to be too big. Then Temple and Houston happen. They had a few heartbreaking losses but i don't think they ever recovered from that UCONN to Houston stretch.

[Aargh]

Actually this is a one-year anomaly, and I've been among the earliest to be critical of Marshall when I felt some criticism was deserved.

Teddy Allen - beat up his girlfriend, stole her phone and car keys, and failed 3 drug tests

Ricky Torres, Rod Brown - transferred to lower-level programs. Would not have had PT had they stayed.

Austin Reaves - Any player dumb enough to date his coach's daughter...there is no way that can end well.

Daishon Smith - Outstanding player at a MUCH lower level of competition

Eric Hamilton - After a second coach insisted he play under control, he apparently began to believe it.

Corey Henderson - Was supposed to be a PG. That didn't work and he wasn't going to get much PT at SG.

I could go on and on, but there is not a pattern of solid players leaving the program. ES was an unusual situation. I don't know of another player whose parent went on social media and repeatedly posted how their son was being mistreated and the coaching staff was unfair. There can only be one source for that information, and I'm certain the source of that information spread the same cancer to others on the team.

I thought ES would leave last year. I feel that if he had, we would not have the defection we have now.

When a coach with Marshall's hard-a$$ approach has a player going around stabbing that coach in the back, it's not that difficult to convince other players that that coach is too difficult to play for.

[WichitaStateGuy]

Gotcha - never too old to learn

I’m an old dog, too. We’ll get there together.

[SB Shock]

actually the biggest concern is not the transfers, that is the symptom of the bigger problem - RECRUITING MISSES. It has become a pandemic for this program.

[NCAABound]

As far as "upgrades", and this might be coming out of my a**

Shamet/Reaves were replaced by Dex/Burton. Shamet got drafted so you take your pick who replaced Reaves. I would take Dex/Burton everytime over Reaves.

Torres/Brown/Moore were replaced by Wade/Bilau/Sherfield. We all know Wade and Grant are upgrades and i will go out on a limb and say Bilau will be too.

Time will tell if the players will be better than what was lost.

Something needed to change unless we are all cool finishing mid pack in the AAC and being a bubble team.

23-8 is not a bad year and we were a legit top 25 team. Right up until we had a guy jack up 3 on a fast break, with just over a minute left, up 9 at UCONN. That almost lost us the game and was the hidden turning point of the season IMO. GM didn't trust Buton to handle the ball because of his FT shooting at the time. GS is a better FT shooter but the moment proved to be too big. Then Temple and Houston happen. They had a few heartbreaking losses but i don't think they ever recovered from that UCONN to Houston stretch.

Are they really upgrades if they also leave the program and leave us in a bad spot?

[Dr. D]

Actually this is a one-year anomaly, and I've been among the earliest to be critical of Marshall when I felt some criticism was deserved.

Teddy Allen - beat up his girlfriend, stole her phone and car keys, and failed 3 drug tests

Ricky Torres, Rod Brown - transferred to lower-level programs. Would not have had PT had they stayed.

Austin Reaves - Any player dumb enough to date his coach's daughter...there is no way that can end well.

Daishon Smith - Outstanding player at a MUCH lower level of competition

Eric Hamilton - After a second coach insisted he play under control, he apparently began to believe it.

Corey Henderson - Was supposed to be a PG. That didn't work and he wasn't going to get much PT at SG.

I could go on and on, but there is not a pattern of solid players leaving the program. ES was an unusual situation. I don't know of another player whose parent went on social media and repeatedly posted how their son was being mistreated and the coaching staff was unfair. There can only be one source for that information, and I'm certain the source of that information spread the same cancer to others on the team.

I thought ES would leave last year. I feel that if he had, we would not have the defection we have now.

When a coach with Marshall's hard-a$$ approach has a player going around stabbing that coach in the back, it's not that difficult to convince other players that that coach is too difficult to play for.

Aargh - I know this won't mean much coming from a rookie poster. I believe you are "RIGHT ON" . I know recruits come in and see WSU practices and spend 2 days (I think) and shown the place by a current player. So they should have some idea on what they are getting into. But, as a coach you really know what you are getting until the get

[NCAABound]

actually the biggest concern is not the transfers, that is the symptom of the bigger problem - RECRUITING MISSES. It has become a pandemic for this program.

I am not in on all the recruiting. Do you mean we have tried for higher level and missed out?

Reminds me Bill Snyder. He had great success winning with under the radar guys who fit his system. After years of success he tried and got a few high level recruits. They didnt pan out for him. So he went back to his philosophy and had a little better success.

[1989]

Actually this is a one-year anomaly, and I've been among the earliest to be critical of Marshall when I felt some criticism was deserved.

I could go on and on, but there is not a pattern of solid players leaving the program.

The negative consequences of how GM has managed our rosters is likely to hit year 3, and I am actually a guy who usually defends coach.

Whether you want to frame it as a pattern or not, the fact is that we have lost multiple talented key pieces over the last couple of years that have lead to us having one terrible year, one ok year, and a probable 3rd year that is going to be less than special. A 3 year stretch of very little continuity and very few accomplishments is not a one year anomaly. As mentioned earlier, maybe next year will be good. But it’s all about who he brings in.

[pie n eye]

The evidence isn’t there to support an argument of a “mass exodus” trend because that narrative is a straw man point that no one is making.

It’s not about a “mass exodus”. It’s more about several key, talented players who were building blocks leaving our program and hurting the continuity that a program like WSU needs to succeed. This turnover didn’t come from nowhere. The coaching staff needs to pinpoint the cause and ensure this doesn’t happen again.

It’s not a narrative straw man. Someone literally used the words mass exodus. Maybe it wasn’t you but my point still applies.

Reaves was a key piece, no doubt. As far as I know his reason for leaving unrelated to a disagreement with the coaching staff.

Burton was a key piece for sure. I’ve said multiple times I wish he was sticking but if he’s not happy I want him to find a better place.

Stevenson and Sherfield might have been key pieces but I think both had attitude issues and neither were good enough players to make it worth the headache.

I don’t want to sit here and talk crap on Ricky Torres, Rod Brown, Chance Moore (maybe I do with him), Noah, and Gordon. I’m sure they’re all great kids and will be successful where ever they end up.

I agree that continuity is necessary and important but it needs to be guys who are bought in and want to be here. I’m not convinced Stevenson and Sherfield were bought in or wanted to be here. Burton, I dunno, but he didn’t want to be here for whatever reason and that’s ok.

[Blackmag]

As far as "upgrades", and this might be coming out of my a**

Shamet/Reaves were replaced by Dex/Burton. Shamet got drafted so you take your pick who replaced Reaves. I would take Dex/Burton everytime over Reaves.

Torres/Brown/Moore were replaced by Wade/Bilau/Sherfield. We all know Wade and Grant are upgrades and i will go out on a limb and say Bilau will be too.

Time will tell if the players will be better than what was lost.

Something needed to change unless we are all cool finishing mid pack in the AAC and being a bubble team.

23-8 is not a bad year and we were a legit top 25 team. Right up until we had a guy jack up 3 on a fast break, with just over a minute left, up 9 at UCONN. That almost lost us the game and was the hidden turning point of the season IMO. GM didn't trust Buton to handle the ball because of his FT shooting at the time. GS is a better FT shooter but the moment proved to be too big. Then Temple and Houston happen. They had a few heartbreaking losses but i don't think they ever recovered from that UCONN to Houston stretch.

I’d have to agree with that, I thought at the time how selfish that shot was. Hold the ball, run clock and there’s about 45 seconds left. The back to back losses on last second shots were back breakers for such a young team.

[Blackmag]

Aargh - I know this won't mean much coming from a rookie poster. I believe you are "RIGHT ON" . I know recruits come in and see WSU practices and spend 2 days (I think) and shown the place by a current player. So they should have some idea on what they are getting into. But, as a coach you really know what you are getting until the get