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  • Originally posted by shock View Post

    The reason I say that is because NBA draft picks are significantly devalued by teams. Very few drafts are a full 30 players deep. The further a player goes in the draft, the more likely he is to spend time in the G league. The money is the same, but the wear and tear is more.
    I would say this perspective is fairly accurate. He has room to improve.

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    • If he is expected to get drafted I think he would have to go really. It is certainly more desirable to be injured on NBA time than Wichita State time. (not to say it is EVER desirable to be injured.)

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      • Originally posted by Windiwu View Post
        If he is expected to get drafted I think he would have to go really. It is certainly more desirable to be injured on NBA time than Wichita State time. (not to say it is EVER desirable to be injured.)
        you can get drafted in the 2nd round, get injured and make nothing. Getting drafted isn't always as good as it sounds.

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        • If he is our PG next year, he will be gone. Because he will be a stud PG. And NBA teams will point to FVV and want that.

          Altough, I don't think his handles are at FVVs level yet. Even when Fred was at WSU. But his penetration and bball IQ is up there.
          "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!

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          • Originally posted by Windiwu View Post
            If he is expected to get drafted I think he would have to go really. It is certainly more desirable to be injured on NBA time than Wichita State time. (not to say it is EVER desirable to be injured.)
            This is the 2020-21 salary scale for 1st Rounders. The bottom of the first round is guaranteed for two years, and the second round isn't guaranteed, so if you get hurt or if they find someone else that they are surprised by, the 2nd rounders just go down to the G League and make very little.

            The money for bottom 1st rounders is guaranteed but not momentous money. Ron Baker had to show up well for himself for a year or two before he made his nice money (9 Million/2 years iirc). Rookie money, even guaranteed doesn't approach that type of life changing money, although 3.2 Million/2 years or1.6 Million per year isn't shabby. The teams probably have one spot at the end of the bench for a G League or 2nd Rounder. Most likely a G League player.

            https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale

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            • Originally posted by ShockerPrez View Post
              If he is our PG next year, he will be gone. Because he will be a stud PG. And NBA teams will point to FVV and want that.

              Altough, I don't think his handles are at FVVs level yet. Even when Fred was at WSU. But his penetration and bball IQ is up there.
              What I’m about to say is not a slight on TE.

              Fred has all-time, all level elite bball IQ. TE has high bball IQ.
              When you believe in something, the only person that's gotta believe it is you. Everything else is for the birds.- LeVelle Moton
              Wichita is going to the rich side of town with a pack of matches and a five gallon tank of gasoline and try to burn everything to the ground

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              • Originally posted by shock View Post

                What I’m about to say is not a slight on TE.

                Fred has all-time, all level elite bball IQ. TE has high bball IQ.
                I don't disagree. Fred had a better team around him. It will be fun to see what TE does when he has more pieces to call upon.

                Both are extreme competetors. I just want to see what these guys do when 10k fans erupt in approval at high level play.
                "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!

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                • On a slight tangent, do you think we will get to a point in basketball where, like baseball, you can be drafted, not like your status/offer, and return to college ball?

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                  • Originally posted by OregonShocker View Post
                    On a slight tangent, do you think we will get to a point in basketball where, like baseball, you can be drafted, not like your status/offer, and return to college ball?
                    If student-athletes get paid, yes.
                    When you believe in something, the only person that's gotta believe it is you. Everything else is for the birds.- LeVelle Moton
                    Wichita is going to the rich side of town with a pack of matches and a five gallon tank of gasoline and try to burn everything to the ground

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                    • Originally posted by The Mad Hatter View Post
                      I've looked at about a half dozen NBA big boards and ESPN's is the only one that even has Tyson listed and on that one he is #84 (well out of the second round). Obviously the media evaluations may differ dramatically from that of NBA teams, but in Tyson's case the difference would have to be massive for him to be even remotely sniffing the first round.

                      Landry was projected better by NBA teams than by media big boards, but he was still way, way higher on those boards than Tyson current is. Here is a sampling for Landry:

                      ESPN: 36
                      The Ringer: 38
                      SI: 50

                      Going #26 obviously means that he out-performed those projections, but not wildly. He was a consensus top 50 prospect whereas Tyson is currently not even consensus top 100. Maybe that changes with workouts and Tyson getting a chance to show NBA teams what he can do, but if things don't change he is best off coming back.
                      I don't follow this stuff, but I know you are knowledgeable on it so I have a question for you. Is there a Covid-19 effect this year where the draft is particularly deep? By that I mean are there really sort of two classes (i.e. two years worth) of seniors and foreigners hitting the boards in a single year causing it to be more talented overall than in recent years? Or is this pretty much same ol' same in terms of quality of overall talent?
                      Kung Wu say man who take lady on camping trip, have one intent.

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                      • Originally posted by ShockerPrez View Post

                        I don't disagree. Fred had a better team around him. It will be fun to see what TE does when he has more pieces to call upon.

                        Both are extreme competetors. I just want to see what these guys do when 10k fans erupt in approval at high level play.
                        I hesitate to compare anyone with Fred. Tyson will be a better shooter than Fred imo although Fred can shoot it really well. Fred has nifty handles, but the thing that has separated and always will separate Fred from most is his spatial, and court awareness. He sees players while running the break, or in the half court. It’s like he has eyes in the back of his head and he never forgets where they are in relationship to him, thus his passing skills are practically para-normal. Fred’s passing skills are what separates him from most players.

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                        • Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post

                          I don't follow this stuff, but I know you are knowledgeable on it so I have a question for you. Is there a Covid-19 effect this year where the draft is particularly deep? By that I mean are there really sort of two classes (i.e. two years worth) of seniors and foreigners hitting the boards in a single year causing it to be more talented overall than in recent years? Or is this pretty much same ol' same in terms of quality of overall talent?
                          There are not two year's worth of people hitting the draft because the NBA still had a draft in 2020, however many people consider the 2021 draft class to be a strong one (on paper certainly stronger than the 2020 draft class) just in terms of the talent of the one-and-done freshman group and international players compared to last year.

                          The interesting thing about this year's draft class is that, for the first time, college seniors can do the early entry process since the extra NCAA eligibility means that seniors could theoretically withdraw from the draft unlike most years (and including seniors bumps the early entry category from 136 to 296 making it artificially look larger than most years despite actually being a bit smaller than recent years in terms of non-senior early entrants). I don't know exactly how the eligibility shifts will play out over the next several years, but the NBA draft is rarely dominated by college seniors anyway, so I wouldn't expect a huge impact.
                          "Cotton scared me - I left him alone." - B4MSU (Bear Nation poster) in reference to heckling players

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                          • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                            I hesitate to compare anyone with Fred. Tyson will be a better shooter than Fred imo although Fred can shoot it really well. Fred has nifty handles, but the thing that has separated and always will separate Fred from most is his spatial, and court awareness. He sees players while running the break, or in the half court. It’s like he has eyes in the back of his head and he never forgets where they are in relationship to him, thus his passing skills are practically para-normal. Fred’s passing skills are what separates him from most players.
                            Fred's passes also got to shooters where the shooter wanted to catch it. A shooter could get into his shot the moment he caught the ball. If a shooter has to reach for the ball it can throw the timing off and sometimes blow up the play. The last couple of years I've seen a lot of guys who were open, but they had to take a step and reach for the ball in order to catch the pass. That can turn an open look into a contested shot or no shot at all.

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                            • Originally posted by WuTheOne View Post

                              Fred's passes also got to shooters where the shooter wanted to catch it. A shooter could get into his shot the moment he caught the ball. If a shooter has to reach for the ball it can throw the timing off and sometimes blow up the play. The last couple of years I've seen a lot of guys who were open, but they had to take a step and reach for the ball in order to catch the pass. That can turn an open look into a contested shot or no shot at all.
                              There is no doubt from me that Fred was coaching the players during the summer (without coaches) regarding how to move and get open, and that he was aware of where they were on the court. Fred’s passing ability and his regard for taking care of the ball (low turnovers), is unrivaled.

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                              • Originally posted by WuTheOne View Post

                                Fred's passes also got to shooters where the shooter wanted to catch it. A shooter could get into his shot the moment he caught the ball. If a shooter has to reach for the ball it can throw the timing off and sometimes blow up the play. The last couple of years I've seen a lot of guys who were open, but they had to take a step and reach for the ball in order to catch the pass. That can turn an open look into a contested shot or no shot at all.
                                THIS!!!!!

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