Coach in today's Eagle

[ABC]

What typical fans think matters at least a bit. How exactly, is hard for me to specifically articulate.

Turgeon was also brutally honest when he used the term "at this level" over and over. And it made me nuts.

[AZ Shocker]

Turgeon was also brutally honest when he used the term "at this level" over and over. And it made me nuts.

Good point, but when Turgeon said that ("at this level") he made it sound like WSU could NEVER get to where the program as a whole wants to go. Kind of a negative "downplay" statement on the entire program suggesting there was a "ceiling" on the basketball programs ability to have sustained success.

Marshall talks about getting high quality athletes that fit his system so he can win at Wichita St. He doesn't seem to care about what he can and cannot get "at this level". He just goes and gets it (Stutz, EO, Hannah, Murry, Kyles, Hawkins, Griskenas, Ellis, etc.) Two athletic 7-footer's??? Wow!!! :clap:

Having said that...time will tell. Obviosuly GM just got here. BUT I sure like his tone/attittude clear and through. Plus by the sounds of things...he's bringing in some talent much like MT did. Possibly even a little more. :good:

[Maggie]

What typical fans think matters at least a bit. How exactly, is hard for me to specifically articulate.

Turgeon was also brutally honest when he used the term "at this level" over and over. And it made me nuts.

Don’t take this the wrong way: It is hard for you to articulate because it really doesn’t matter. Fans just like to think it matters because they like to feel like part of the team. They personalize statements, games, etc. What a reasonable fan thinks about CGM’s comments does not matter at all. Besides, if it did – even a little bit to CGM – then I don’t know if I want him to be the coach at WSU. His job is the play by the rules and win. That’s it.

With regard to Turgeon, I agree with AZ but would like to add this: My impression of Turgeon is that he had a preconceived notion of “mid-major programs” and of WSU. Was he being honest about his feelings – absolutely. But those were self imposed limits he seemed to place on himself and the program. It drove me nuts too.

Specific comments about players is different because those players can challenge the coaches opinion and prove him wrong. Is Turgeon going to do that to himself? I made a comment in the recruiting thread about WSU’s contact with Noel Johnson. Basically, I stated that CGM would have a much better chance of signing Noel than Turgeon ever would. Why? Because Turgeon, by his own admission, didn’t feel comfortable recruiting players of Noel’s caliber to WSU – for what ever reason. Marshall on the other hand does not suffer from that handicap.

[shocker3]

When Marshall arrived at WSU, these are the scholarship players he had who had played any D1 ball - ever.

Sr's:
Thomasson - 6'7" - reserve
Couisnard - 6'4" - starter
Braeuer - 5'10" - starter

Jr's:
Preadom - 6'1" - reserve

So's:
Mekel - 6'3" - reserve

That's it. 5 scholarship players who had ever played D1 ball. A total of 5 scholarship players in 3 classes. Only one player taller than 6'4".

Add in 2 RS FR with no D1 experience:
Durley - 6'7"
Butler - 6'8" - who was cut and only here because he didn't have anywhere else to go.

That makes 6 (or 7) scholarship players on the roster when Marshall got to Wichita. 2 returning starters, 3 returning reserves and 1 (or 2) untested Fr. 2 previously committed recruits showed up. Clemente (had to be re-recruited) and Hatch.

Now Marshall isn't supposed to say anything about holes in recruiting classes (which is glaringly obvious) or finding the roster a little thin when he arrived (which is also glaringly obvious)? Saying the roster was thin is an honest evaluation.

So, Marshall isn't supposed to be honest and say something that every WSU fan should have clearly noticed months before Marshall said it?

Braeuer "isn't" an All-Conference PG. "Isn't" refers to something at the current moment. Right now Braeuer isn't an all-league player. There was a discussion of All-Valley PG's on Valley Talk. I don't recall even the most homer and glass-half-full WSU fans giving Braeuer much (if any) run. The discussion centered around about 5 PG's. Not even optimistic and hopeful WSU fans put Braeuer in the discussion.

Marshall didn't say Braeuer "won't be" an all-league player. That would be a prediction that Braeuer can't make it to that level. That's not what Marshall said.

Again, Marshall isn't supposed to be honest and say something that every WSU fan should have clearly noticed months before Marshall said it?

What do you want - coachspeak that's pure unadultered garbage? Things like,"We've got a great bunch of guys here and we're going to go a long ways with this team"? If that's true, I'd like to hear it. If that's not true, I'd rather not hear the same old tired cliches every coach trots out just to placate the fan base.

I think that pretty well describes the situation.

I also agree with ABC and Maggie about Mark's "at this level" and "Missouri Valley type player" comments. I think it did end up being kind of a self-imposed ceiling on Mark's recruiting.

I used to cringe every time Mark made one of those comments. I thought he might change after WSU made the sweet sixteen. Instead he just added comments like making the sweet sixteen at this level is like making the final four.

All coaches say something we don't necessarily agree with or like. I don't think I know anybody I agree with 100% of the time on everything.

[rrshock]

I just hope that one day in the near future we hear fans of other Valley schools talking about wanting to get the type of players that WSU has. That would be a truly great day and also put all of this discussion behind us.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Parsing.

A guy could almost think we have some lawyers and politicians, who are hanging out here.

[moshock]

I was just listening to Gene Smithson recalling how he got great players in here and he said that it all started with Antoine Carr. AC basically recruited Cliff Levingston. CL recruited Ozell Jones. He also said that when X came for a recruiting visit, he had him tag along with AC and CL and that did the trick.

He said getting a big time player like AC opened up a whole new area for recruiting. I hope that Garrett Stutz is that kind of kid. If we could somehow get Lil Cheddar, it would change history here. There would be a whole new meaning to "at this level".

:wsu_posters:

[forevershockerfan]

FSF likes that line of thinking and Noel would be free to bring a pal or 2 with him I hope. Awesome players attract more players who want to do something special together. Playing time would readily be avaiable for such keepers. Playing at WSU obviously would not stop a player in his process of preparing for the NBA either, but rather enhance it with a fine Coach such as HCGM at the helm.

[AZ Shocker]

My impression of Turgeon is that he had a preconceived notion of “mid-major programs” and of WSU. Was he being honest about his feelings – absolutely. But those were self imposed limits he seemed to place on himself and the program. It drove me nuts too.

Exactly...couldn't have said it any better. :good:

Basically, I stated that CGM would have a much better chance of signing Noel than Turgeon ever would. Why? Because Turgeon, by his own admission, didn’t feel comfortable recruiting players of Noel’s caliber to WSU – for what ever reason. Marshall on the other hand does not suffer from that handicap.

Yep totally agree there as well. MT was a terrific coach for WSU, but something I always used to think about was that he may have actually been at a disadvantage coming from Topeka and KU. He grew up on KU basketball. With that in MT's head...pretty much any school other than the Top-5-10 programs in all the land would be considered "at this level" when comparing to what he grew up with. lol :yes:

[Maggie]

My impression of Turgeon is that he had a preconceived notion of “mid-major programs” and of WSU. Was he being honest about his feelings – absolutely. But those were self imposed limits he seemed to place on himself and the program. It drove me nuts too.

Exactly...couldn't have said it any better. :good:

Basically, I stated that CGM would have a much better chance of signing Noel than Turgeon ever would. Why? Because Turgeon, by his own admission, didn’t feel comfortable recruiting players of Noel’s caliber to WSU – for what ever reason. Marshall on the other hand does not suffer from that handicap.

Yep totally agree there as well. MT was a terrific coach for WSU, but something I always used to think about was that he may have actually been at a disadvantage coming from Topeka and KU. He grew up on KU basketball. With that in MT's head...pretty much any school other than the Top-5-10 programs in all the land would be considered "at this level" when comparing to what he grew up with. lol :yes:

You might be my long lost brother. It is a bit scary.

[ShockRef]

Just thinking about some of GM's comment regarding this team and about one that hasn't been mentioned. GM has made comments about how this team has a number of shortcomings and HAS to outwork every team every night to have a chance. Every team should always prioritize outworking the other team but to just have a chance to win speaks volumes. He may irritate some by saying what everyone else is thinking, but it is what it is.
This team is quickly earning the label of the gang that couldn't shoot straight and unfortunately, it's well deserved. The abysmal trey shooting percentages occur on a regular basis and when it does, it's not just a trend. It's more like an epidemic. 8)

[ABC]

Parsing.

A guy could almost think we have some lawyers and politicians, who are hanging out here.

And you would be right!