Summer Scrimmage reports

[Shockm]

It sounds like GGG sees him being able to compete for minutes. He said that Grant Sherfield was much more athletic than advertised during workouts earlier this summer. Maybe he will play Eric more at the 3 this year backing up Dennis. He played there quite a bit last February and March. This article is hardly an official release from the coaching staff on how they envision this year's playing time.

I think that I will wait until we get much more information than an article from Rosenboom to declare playing time for anyone.

[Dan]

In previous articles, Sherfield has been compared to FVV. He’s not a freak athlete like Etienne but he has other intangibles.

[shoxlax]

Not that I am accusing anybody of it but do not sleep on the duo of NF and JB at the point.

[WuDrWu]

Jamarius Burton is impressive AF. Big time athlete, competitive, cerebral, hard working, polite and intelligent. Not sure what else you'd want from a young man.

[Dan]

Better shooting percentage would be good, but I like JB and trust that he’s been putting in a lot of work on this front.

[wufan]

Not that I am accusing anybody of it but do not sleep on the duo of NF and JB at the point.

Wouldn’t be surprised by any combo.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Not that I am accusing anybody of it but do not sleep on the duo of NF and JB at the point.

‘He can sleep all he wants to now’ - FVV

[ShockingButTrue]

Not that I am accusing anybody of it but do not sleep on the duo of NF and JB at the point.

I'm not. Noah had a pretty good AAU showing over the last year.

And wasn't his high school team a top 10 team? If so, they had to play against pretty good competition I would imagine.

[wufan]

I'm not. Noah had a pretty good AAU showing over the last year.

And wasn't his high school team a top 10 team? If so, they had to play against pretty good competition I would imagine.

Noah is talented and has intangibles. His body needs work.

[WSUwatcher]

Sounds like the work is already underway if he's up to 165 and rising. He'll probably never be a brick like FVV was, but he won't be a complete stick either as some have feared.

[ShockingButTrue]

4* recruit means he's a "fairly" well-regarded player. Just sayin'.

[Cdizzle]

FVV was and is a brick. He can't jump 12' in the air. Most other aspects of his athletic ability are and have been underrated.

[Jhook89]

Wouldn’t be surprised by any combo.

You’re telling me if they roll Midtgaard out at the point you wouldn’t be a little surprised?

[wufan]

You’re telling me if they roll Midtgaard out at the point you wouldn’t be a little surprised?

Asbjorn has shown tremendous improvement in his handles!

Seriously though; Burton, Sherfield, Fernandes, and Etienne will all get a shot at PG. two will play 35 + minutes at that position.

[pie n eye]

That seems pretty reasonable based on what we know. Fernandes redshirting makes me a little wary based on the success of past redshirt guards (most if not all ended up transferring?) but it’s not fair to plot his future based on the careers of Holland or Henderson Jr. Besides, both ended up as pretty good players, just not with the Shockers.

[Cdizzle]

Agree they ended up fine players elsewhere. But what's the point of the WSU program footing the bill for any part of that? Lace em up and see if you can contribute.

[Dan]

Henderson and Holland are not good comps, IMO. Neither were good enough to play at WSU, they had success at inferior programs. They were recruited at a time when we were taking more flyers on kids. But still, there’s only so many minutes to go around and they all want to play.

[Cdizzle]

I hope the only potential redshirt is Udeze. I'm just not sold on redshirting for any reason other than injury at this point. All hands on deck.

Who was the last scholarship player to take an optional redshirt and stick around? Who was the last scholarship player to take an optional redshirt and it ended up being worth it for the program?

If they aren't ready enough to be competing for minutes, they likely aren't going to get there during a redshirt year. The train keeps moving. If they are on the fringe of getting meaningful minutes, I'm not sure it's in the best interest of the program to spend 5 scholarship years to get 4 playing years.

[Aargh]

There was this Rob Baker guy. He did OK after taking a redshirt.

[wufan]

Shaq Morris

[ShockerPrez]

WSU was not a tourney team last year. To me, that says we were not talented enough to say to anyone we have now that they aren't good enough to play serious minutes. Everyone on the team could be the guy that makes the team better.

If we were returning a bunch of guys from a tourney run, then maybe we could ask a newcomer to redshirt. But right now, we need all the guys we can to put them into the machine and see what kind of sausage we have.

And they can shoot and score, they should get minutes. Cause, oh my, we need shooters!

[Wuzee]

I hope the only potential redshirt is Udeze. I'm just not sold on redshirting for any reason other than injury at this point. All hands on deck.

Who was the last scholarship player to take an optional redshirt and stick around? Who was the last scholarship player to take an optional redshirt and it ended up being worth it for the program?

If they aren't ready enough to be competing for minutes, they likely aren't going to get there during a redshirt year. The train keeps moving. If they are on the fringe of getting meaningful minutes, I'm not sure it's in the best interest of the program to spend 5 scholarship years to get 4 playing years.

To answer your questions:

Shaquille Morris.

2013-14 (Freshman): Spent a redshirt year sculpting his body with strength coach Kerry Rosenboom to better prepare for Division I basketball… Made big strides with his conditioning, allowing him to sprint more in transition and contribute on both ends of the floor.

Before that, some guy named Ron Baker.

2011-12 (Freshman): Added 12 pounds while working with the WSU strength and conditioning staff to go from 197 to 209… Requested a redshirt in order to get himself acclimated to college basketball… Appeared in one exhibition game against Emporia State, scoring six points in 16 minutes of action.

Circumstances indicate whether it's a good move or not. It's not "redshirt always bad!" Because redshirt often indicates the player has some deficiency to work on, statistically you will have a larger number that don't work out, but clearly there are success stories in our very recent past.

As far as it being "worth it" -- No one is guaranteed a roster spot the next year by redshirting, and the shirt can be pulled at any time if necessary, so I don't see any downside to it. He either addresses whatever deficiency he has during the season or or he doesn't. Either way, that has to happen in practice. Sitting on the bench and playing mop up doesn't really benefit anybody.

[pinstripers]

PJ Coo

[WSUwatcher]

Another good example, pin, although from a previous regime.

It's not as if Marshall goes around redshirting with wild abandon -- he picks his spots, and he usually has a better idea of a player's future than the kid himself does, which is not surprising considering 3G's experience and talent judgment. He doesn't force it on anyone, but when players are willing to give it a try, it can pay off big time.

[jdshock]

I hope the only potential redshirt is Udeze. I'm just not sold on redshirting for any reason other than injury at this point. All hands on deck.

Who was the last scholarship player to take an optional redshirt and stick around? Who was the last scholarship player to take an optional redshirt and it ended up being worth it for the program?

If they aren't ready enough to be competing for minutes, they likely aren't going to get there during a redshirt year. The train keeps moving. If they are on the fringe of getting meaningful minutes, I'm not sure it's in the best interest of the program to spend 5 scholarship years to get 4 playing years.

I say it every time the conversation comes up, but I really dislike redshirting a freshman. I think a sophomore redshirt makes a ton of sense. If you get to the end of their freshman year and they don't have the potential to warrant sticking around, they can leave and not burn a year. If they have the potential but need time to develop (e.g., Nurger - barring injuries to Grady, obviously), give them a sophomore year redshirt. Morris was way better his senior year because he had a redshirt. Stutz would've benefited substantially from a redshirt year.

I totally agree that you don't want to waste it as a first year, since they may ultimately be better suited elsewhere.

[proshox]

No doubt. Let em play year 1, gets them a chance to see what needs to improvement. .

It also allows the coaches to determine if they are worth five years of scholarships for four years of basketball.

[AndShock]

Rauno would’ve had a very valuable redshirt year if we didn’t have to pull it.

[Cdizzle]

It's possible. Though kindof to my point as well. All hands on deck. There are injuries every year where additional depth is helpful.

[Cdizzle]

To answer your questions:

Shaquille Morris.

2013-14 (Freshman): Spent a redshirt year sculpting his body with strength coach Kerry Rosenboom to better prepare for Division I basketball… Made big strides with his conditioning, allowing him to sprint more in transition and contribute on both ends of the floor.

Before that, some guy named Ron Baker.

2011-12 (Freshman): Added 12 pounds while working with the WSU strength and conditioning staff to go from 197 to 209… Requested a redshirt in order to get himself acclimated to college basketball… Appeared in one exhibition game against Emporia State, scoring six points in 16 minutes of action.

Circumstances indicate whether it's a good move or not. It's not "redshirt always bad!" Because redshirt often indicates the player has some deficiency to work on, statistically you will have a larger number that don't work out, but clearly there are success stories in our very recent past.

As far as it being "worth it" -- No one is guaranteed a roster spot the next year by redshirting, and the shirt can be pulled at any time if necessary, so I don't see any downside to it. He either addresses whatever deficiency he has during the season or or he doesn't. Either way, that has to happen in practice. Sitting on the bench and playing mop up doesn't really benefit anybody.

I would fairly strongly contend that redshirting Morris was a waste of a scholarship year. Some will disagree, which is fine.

Ron Baker was not redshirted as a scholarship player. Him redshirting as a walk-on was a clever accounting way to get him on an already full roster.

[Cdizzle]

You lose the opportunity to get a new player that could be better. If somebody isn't going to figure it out in 4 years, I think we're better off rolling the dice on the next recruit, rather than spending 5 for 4.

Morris never 'got it.' 4 years, 5, years, 12 years, didn't matter. He was who he was. Which was a fine player.

[Dan]

Morris was the best center in the league his senior year. If he would’ve played as a freshman he would’ve been the 4th post behind Carter, Lufile and coleby. He was buried by depth and was immature and out of shape. That redshirt year did wonders for him.

[ShockTalk]

What ever happened to that old common phrase on SN that big men take longer to develop? I still believe it is true and for a number of reasons. They may still be growing in size and face a continual battle to control and adjust to those physical changes. Most big men in high school are not outstanding shooters....they didn't have to be to dominate a game. They also are not generally as mobile as they could be for the same reason. This all leads to a general "big awakening" if one goes to a quality college program. If one did not see these changes, not just in skills, but in athleticism, attitudes, and approach to the game in players like Shaq, Durley, and Miller, I cannot help you. I believe all three of these players, some of our best true centers, all sat out a year for one reason or another. Even Kyle Wilson (a 4/5) benefited from a RS.