Wichita State at Furman Game Thread

[shockerfan]

I understand your statement Dan. I might have been a little hard on Raferty because I grow tired of hearing he is one the best players in college. HE IS NOT. He is good for the system he plays in. And I agree its extremely frustrating watching him back down 260 pound 7ft centers for the shockers. That should not happen. Anybody that thinks that its ok for that to happen doesn't understand how big men are suppose to dominate the paint. A 6 ft 8 210 pound soaking wet center is not suppose to do that.


Lastly this is a message board. We're not all suppose to agree. And I certainly do not have a problem with people not agreeing with me. If everybody was agreeing then that would mean no one is thinking. Go shocks.

Again, they would have BOTH fouled out.....quickly.

One time one of our bigs, I believe it was AM, did stand his ground and didn't move. Rafferty bounced off of him and fell down. And guess what....it was a foul!

The bigs did as much as they were ALLOWED to do. They did GREAT for what they could do.

[The Mad Hatter]

I understand your statement Dan. I might have been a little hard on Raferty because I grow tired of hearing he is one the best players in college. HE IS NOT. He is good for the system he plays in. And I agree its extremely frustrating watching him back down 260 pound 7ft centers for the shockers. That should not happen. Anybody that thinks that its ok for that to happen doesn't understand how big men are suppose to dominate the paint. A 6 ft 8 210 pound soaking wet center is not suppose to do that.


Lastly this is a message board. We're not all suppose to agree. And I certainly do not have a problem with people not agreeing with me. If everybody was agreeing then that would mean no one is thinking. Go shocks.

You sound like every entitled KU fan that whines about a WSU player dominating their NBA-bound 5-star players.

It turns out basketball is about a lot more than raw athleticism. In the post, the reason a smaller, lighter player can back down a bigger one is all about balance and positioning. Most players have a limited set of moves they can put on you, so a defender can shade to take away that move. When a post player as a lot of moves, especially to either shoulder, and is good at feeling the body of the defender, they can move in the direction the defender isn't shading to either get better position of get a shot off. The fact that shorter players have a lower center of gravity can also counter-balance some of the weight differential when it comes to establishing position (this is why Dennis Rodman could be effective in the post at 6'7" 220 lbs).

Given the logic you are using, why aren't you on the shockers in the pros thread ripping into Russell Westbrook for being beaten by Fred when Westbrook clearly has the athleticism advantage? I'm not saying that Rafferty has the same pro prospects as Fred, but your analysis is the same approach that caused commentators, fans of other programs, etc. to denigrate Fred's game. Skill matters and there are far too many people who judge players on how well they fill out the uniform instead of how smartly and skillfully they play.

[IndianaShocker]

I agree with basically none of the wisdom @shocktables is imparting, but using Dennis Rodman as an example isnt helping. Career averages of 7ppg and 1.8apg. Now he was a great rebounder and while he was great at getting position, his separating skills were quickness, anticipation, spacial awareness, and a unique ability to tip balls toward open spaces that he could get to. His skill set was dramatically different than Raff's.

[JVShocker]

I think it's a skill set. I'm 6'3" and could score in the post against any big that I played pick up games with (including many ex-Shocker players.) Look at Fred Van Vleet. How would AM fair against him? What about Kareem Abdul Jabar? He'd have been roasted alive and they're two completely different body types. The offensive player with a skill set ALWAYS has the advantage. I think that's why they call it being on the "deFENSE."

[The Mad Hatter]

My comment about Rodman was specific to the use of a low center of gravity to get leverage. You are correct that Rodman isn't anything like Rafferty in terms of offensive move set.

[TheShocktocles]

You sound like every entitled KU fan that whines about a WSU player dominating their NBA-bound 5-star players.

It turns out basketball is about a lot more than raw athleticism. In the post, the reason a smaller, lighter player can back down a bigger one is all about balance and positioning. Most players have a limited set of moves they can put on you, so a defender can shade to take away that move. When a post player as a lot of moves, especially to either shoulder, and is good at feeling the body of the defender, they can move in the direction the defender isn't shading to either get better position of get a shot off. The fact that shorter players have a lower center of gravity can also counter-balance some of the weight differential when it comes to establishing position (this is why Dennis Rodman could be effective in the post at 6'7" 220 lbs).

Given the logic you are using, why aren't you on the shockers in the pros thread ripping into Russell Westbrook for being beaten by Fred when Westbrook clearly has the athleticism advantage? I'm not saying that Rafferty has the same pro prospects as Fred, but your analysis is the same approach that caused commentators, fans of other programs, etc. to denigrate Fred's game. Skill matters and there are far too many people who judge players on how well they fill out the uniform instead of how smartly and skillfully they play.

Thanks for your opinion . We don't agree.

[Shocker85]

Thanks for your opinion . We don't agree.

"We" as in virtually everyone vs. you.

Did you even watch the game? Go watch it again. Skilled, experienced player figures out a way to be very affective against bigger players. Happens all the time in college hoops. The WSU bigs followed an effective scout to the best of their abilities. The Shockers won. Why does that bother you so much?

[ShockerPhi]

Everyone on this board is stupid except for me.

[Aargh]

If you play Rafferty straight up and don't give ground, he's got the footwork and the handles to go around his defender. The game plan was to let Rafferty get his points because he was going to get them no matter what the Shox did. He's done that all year. The game plan was also set up to not let the rest of Furman's players give him the supporting points that Furman always got when Rafferty was defended "properly".

We don't have a future NBA player in the post. Those guys get shoe money. Future NBA posts are about the only posts that Rafferty isn't going to back down. 6'8" 220 pound guys are almost always a LOT quicker and more mobile than a much larger person, such as a 6'11" or 7' 260 or 270 pound guy.

Rafferty's 5 assists should tell you a lot about his game. Furman goes to Rafferty to pull defenders off their 3-point shooters and hopes to get 3 points from a possession instead of only 2 from Rafferty.

[Kung Wu]

I might have been a little hard on Raferty because I grow tired of hearing he is one the best players in college. HE IS NOT.

Sports Illustrated thinks Rafferty is the 34th best player in the country -- and that's not just Centers -- that's ALL players.

[shocks02]

He's not athletic so he must not be good.

[Bluzrover]

Oh come on Kung Wu, why do you have to bring up pesky little things like facts. But of course, SI is just fake sports news so NM.

[TheShocktocles]

Thanks for that information. I am glad that you are impressed. I am not.

[SHOCKvalue]

Got it.

[pogo]

Obviously done with smoke and mirrors. Villanova and those other 25 teams were fooled as well

[TheShocktocles]

Sports Illustrated thinks Rafferty is the 34th best player in the country -- and that's not just Centers -- that's ALL players.

This is so funny. Your man is not ranked in the top 50 by Big Lead top 50 players. Not ranked in top 50 best college players byRanker. You do know that the fans vote in the Ranker publication. Nope he is not even listed in College Basketball Top 100 and one by CBS. The shocks didn't need NBA players to defend Raferty. They just needed some post players with mojo. " Raftery is one of the best players in college." LMAO Gp shocks beat Clemson.

[SHOCKvalue]

Tell him how you really feel.

[WstateU]

I'm not sure what's going on... there have been some serious melt-downs here recently. Surprising, because, "spring has sprung".

[Stickboy46]

I think many on this board understand what I am saying about this issue. I try not to get personal. Perhaps you can do the same. Have a nice day.

I actually don't think anyone on this board understands what you are saying. Rafferty is a very good player. He's almost automatic down low and is as good of passer as any guard we have on our team. Great court vision.

Yet again. You keep staying we needed mojo and "stand our ground". We tried that, the refs were not allowing it. Part of game planning is understanding how to account for how the refs are planning the game.

You look extremely childish in this.

[ShockerFever]

What a weird way for a winning game thread to go.

[WstateU]

We have a few posters that need to secure their cheese; it's dangling from their cracker.

[Aargh]

News flash: Bill Self is staying at KU. The Bulls withdrew their offer after reading this thread and are going to give the job to Shocktocles.

The Bulls front office released the following statement, "He obviously knows more about basketball than Gregg Marshall, and that's good enough for us".

(Before editing, I had a typo in Shocktocles name. There are some interesting ways to have a "typo" in that name.)

[Bluzrover]

I forgot, did we win this game?

[Kung Wu]

This is so funny. Your man is not ranked in the top 50 by Big Lead top 50 players. Not ranked in top 50 best college players byRanker. You do know that the fans vote in the Ranker publication. Nope he is not even listed in College Basketball Top 100 and one by CBS. The shocks didn't need NBA players to defend Raferty. They just needed some post players with mojo. " Raftery is one of the best players in college." LMAO Gp shocks beat Clemson.

Really, because Matt Rafferty is ...

4th in the NCAA in Offensive Rating, after being 2nd last year. WHAM!
4th in the NCAA in Player Efficiency Rating. BAM!
16th in the NCAA in field goal percentage. POW!
20th in the NCAA in 2 point field goals. BLAM!
12th in the NCAA in steals. SOCK!
2nd in the NCAA for CAREER Offensive Rating. WHAPOW!
15th in the NCAA for Defensive Rating. ZAP!
4th in the NCAA for Offensive Win Shares. And I don't even know what that means!
3rd in the NCAA for Defensive Win Shares. And I don't know what those are either, but it makes him ...
1st in the NCAA for Win Shares. That's good right?! I'm not actually sure.
9th in the NCAA for Plus/Minus. K.O.!!!

These rankings aren't conference rankings, they are rankings for all NCAA players in the entire COUNTRY.

I mean this guy is a statistic MONSTER!

I know what happened! When he was offered, TheShocktocles took the blue pill. Should have went with the red one!

[WstateU]

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