We've lost our edge

[C0|dB|00ded]

You're like fishin' with that one brother. May your nets be filled.


T


...:cool:

[C0|dB|00ded]

I love how in this post and in this entire thread you are listing everything other than the obvious issue we are having right now, which is our youth. Why aren’t we “playing angry”? Youth! (You: But we weren’t playing angry last year either; Me: All those guys who were soft last year left giving us a new team full of freshman and new teams full of freshman suck).....Why do we go through stretches where we look like we can’t score on a D1 level? Youth! (You: But you don’t understand, I’m not talking about making shots, I’m just talking about guys who will run through a wall, and eat glass, and drink spoiled milk, and not wipe their ass after they poop to show coach how angry and manly they are; Me: no matter how big of a hard on you have for play angry, it’s still relevant to discuss other aspects of the game in this thread. Bringing those other elements up doesn’t mean that we don’t understand what you are trying to say.) ....Why are we bipolar and one minute looking pretty darn good but the next looking like complete trash? Youth! (You: But we lost Jan’s, and coach doesn’t look mean anymore, and blah blah blah blah blah ; Me: Youth)

Coming into this season, Coach Marshall and the CBB media didn’t predict that we would struggle because Coach brought in a crap load of players who don’t fit into the “play angry” mold. They predicted that we would struggle because teams with a core of non McDonald’s All American freshman are usually bad. They were right, which is why we stink. All those things that you say last years team lacked and this years team currently lacks will come back as this group gets older.

You've read my musings fairly well and I thank you for your time.

Here is where our vectors cross, albeit very briefly:

You: But we weren’t playing angry last year either; Me: All those guys who were soft last year left giving us a new team full of freshman and new teams full of freshman suck).

You are hypothesizing that two completely separate teams which display an oddly similar soft vibe are not sharing a common cause. You also may be intimating (whether you realize it or not) that a lack of offense is contributory to Play Angry.

I am aware that we can look "good" when we are hitting our shots. But looking "good" and Playing Angry are two completely different things. Playing Angry (or it's lack thereof) is most noticeable when we AREN'T hitting our shots. When we go cold what happens: Do we turtle and watch a cascade of balls rain into our bucket like it's 10 feet wide or do we start playing at such a frenetic pace that the opposition is sped up to the point of total chaos throwing balls to cheerleaders (like what VCU, Houston, etc. did to us).

Last year it was, "We don't have the athletes." Well I can tell you that this year we DO have the athletes.

There's also another premise that people are proposing unknowingly. If we aren't seeing Play Angry, it's because either A) It's difficult to learn, or B) it requires a player to age. I reject both of those suggestions. Play Angry is taught within the first couple practices. You run full blast until your chest is heaving and then you make a fist. Rinse/repeat. When you see a lose ball you dive to it instinctively. When you see a weak dribbler you go for the steal. When you see your teammate engaging the dribbler you help out and go for the steal. All you can think about is getting your hands on that ball. It's your ball. They don't want it as badly as you do. You will die for that ball. That's how Fred played. Maybe there's no such thing as Play Angry, maybe it's Play Fredley. If that's the truth we are in for a world of Creighton,... I mean mediocrity.


T


...:cool:

[pie n eye]

Ok?

You’re more than welcome to your theory but I don’t buy it.

Evolution (devolution) of Gregg Marshall’s coaching style? Sure, most people change over time but he seems like basically the same guy to me. He’s won everywhere he’s been. The idea that because he chilled out slightly he all of a sudden forgot how to coach seems unlikely.

Suffering a reversion to the mean in our diamond in the rough recruiting results? How many true diamonds in the rough have we found? Fred and Ron, maybe Cle? Three in ten years. I don’t buy that Marshall woke up one day and could no longer recognize talent. You yourself have been high on several of the recruits this year, specifically Stevenson and Echinique.

Peter Principle. Not sure what you’re implying. That Marshall has reached his level of incompetence now that we’re in the American? Good luck with that.

Plenty of people have rationally explained the struggles we’re experiencing this year without resorting to doomsday scenarios.

[1989]

[1989]

People need to reflect on two games last year for ultimate clarity on the issue: @ Houston and our NCAA 1-and-done. Then balance that with the lack of ferocity and urgency with this year's team and either we are witnessing an evolution (devolution) in Gregg Marshall's coaching style, we are suffering a reversion to the mean with regards to our diamond-in-the-rough recruiting results, or we are witnessing the Peter Principle in high definition.


T


...:cool:

I love how in this post and in this entire thread you are listing everything other than the obvious issue we are having right now, which is our youth. Why aren’t we “playing angry”? Youth! (You: But we weren’t playing angry last year either; Me: All those guys who were soft last year left giving us a new team full of freshman and new teams full of freshman suck).....Why do we go through stretches where we look like we can’t score on a D1 level? Youth! (You: But you don’t understand, I’m not talking about making shots, I’m just talking about guys who will run through a wall, and eat glass, and drink spoiled milk, and not wipe their ass after they poop to show coach how angry and manly they are; Me: no matter how big of a hard on you have for play angry, it’s still relevant to discuss other aspects of the game in this thread. Bringing those other elements up doesn’t mean that we don’t understand what you are trying to say.) ....Why are we bipolar and one minute looking pretty darn good but the next looking like complete trash? Youth! (You: But we lost Jan’s, and coach doesn’t look mean anymore, and blah blah blah blah blah ; Me: Youth)

Coming into this season, Coach Marshall and the CBB media didn’t predict that we would struggle because Coach brought in a crap load of players who don’t fit into the “play angry” mold. They predicted that we would struggle because teams with a core of non McDonald’s All American freshman are usually bad. They were right, which is why we stink. All those things that you say last years team lacked and this years team currently lacks will come back as this group gets older.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I appreciate you saying that BOBB, but I love you for knowing it. Be confident that the light you see in the distance is not a mirage. Keep heading toward the truth for it shall surely set you free.


T


...:cool:

[BOBB]

Bro... for the 11th time, Play Angry was often nonexistent LAST year. Read my comments on page one.


T


...:cool:

Yes. Last year’s team was soft as pudding. This year has been a continuation. I’ll put up with twenty losses if we are grinding it out and making it hard for the other team. We laid down for VCU.

I will say that bad offensive possessions are part of our bad defense. However, maintaining composure on offense when you’re down is part of a toughness mentality, So it is all interrelated.

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#157.1
pie n eye commented
49 minutes ago

Or D) none of the above

I don't know who you are; I don't know what you want. If you are looking for agreement I can tell you that I have none. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills - skills I have acquired over a very long career - skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my theory go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not argue with you, I will not troll you; but if you don't, I will mark you, I will corner you, and I will own you.




T


...:cool:

[pie n eye]

Or D) none of the above

[C0|dB|00ded]

You got a lotta pet turtles do ya ABC? ;)


T


...:cool:

[C0|dB|00ded]

People need to reflect on two games last year for ultimate clarity on the issue: @ Houston and our NCAA 1-and-done. Then balance that with the lack of ferocity and urgency with this year's team and either we are witnessing an evolution (devolution) in Gregg Marshall's coaching style, we are suffering a reversion to the mean with regards to our diamond-in-the-rough recruiting results, or we are witnessing the Peter Principle in high definition.


T


...:cool:

[C0|dB|00ded]

Rebuilding is being confused with losing our edge? With so many newcomers to the program, it takes more than the 6 months they've been on campus to assimilate to the Play Angry culture. So many think this is a sprint rather than a marathon. With that said, some people are natural bulldogs and have that intensity we love to see. Others don't have it but are capable of learning it. And then we have those who aren't naturals or incapable of learning and adapting to the culture. These are the ones who have no business on the team - looks like we already had one leave in Moore, a couple of more are a possibility. I don't think we've lost our edge, I'll give it time, and the weak minded who lack MTXE will find themselves out of a scholarship soon enough. I'll be patient.

Bro... for the 11th time, Play Angry was often nonexistent LAST year. Read my comments on page one.


T


...:cool:

[ABC]

Turtles win races. Every freaking time. Even in college basketball . . . for most.

[MelvinLoudermilk]

Believe me, I share your frustration

[SB Shock]

You're taking this team, who lost 90% it's roster, and is still trying to figure things out, and comparing their CURRENT efficiency to prior team's YEAR END efficiency ratings. Come on now.

Those past teams had established roles and experience in the program.

It still a snapshot of where the program is as of today and some perspective of how much improvement it needs to become relevant once again. It would be nice to see this team actually get better offensively and defensively as they have their roles more defined and as they gain experience - but that has not happened yet.

As Taylor Eldridge has pointed out

Since halftime of the Baylor game, Wichita State offense has been scoring at 0.90 PPP, That's 5.5 games, 220 minutes and 384 possessions.

Even with the LaTech & Davidson stinkers baked in, WSU offense was at a healthy 1.08 PPP before that.