End of Game Scenarios

[Shoxfan11]

This is an accurate statement. We're playing AAC games with MVC players with the exception of a few. An upgrade in conference will hopefully equate to an upgrade in recruits soon. If Lomax doesn't ask to be released from his LOI, I'm very happy with these two coming in. The big guys we've got signed, I dunno. I'm afraid they'll be the typical big guy we've had come in, great size - slow feet and not athletic enough.

Please stop the "MVC players" garbage, makes us sound like Creighton fans. We recruit players to play games on big stages against the best teams, regardless of what league we're in. When you look and see what our "MVC players" have accomplished in Marshall's time here, it's pretty evident that they're not "MVC players".

[Shock Top]

We need more dudes.

We've had some dudes in comparison to mid-majors, to be sure. But we need DUDES. Guys who you can give the ball to, tell them "get a bucket," clear everyone out, and they can get it. Landry's the closest thing we have right now to that, but even he doesn't have a great first step and is not overly quick to the basket compared to players like Gray or Milton.

The caliber of individual talent, in my humble opinion, from Cincinnati, Houston, Temple, UCF, UConn, Memphis, SMU, and to a lesser extent, Tulane, are all higher than ours. That said, great coaching and a great culture cover a multitude of ills, and we have one of the best in the country. But we have some players who are constantly physically overmatched (Frankamp, Reaves), and some who are much more raw (Willis, Z. Brown, McDuffie) compared to the players we face in the American.

A lot of that comes with recruiting, and we just haven't been able to recruit some of those guys until recently, although we snagged three future NBA players. I would put Van Vleet and Early (especially when they were together in 13-14) all in the dude category.

We need more dudes. And in my personal opinion we're getting a couple in Lomax and Moore next season.

Some may take this as a slight to our guys, and it's not. But there is a physical difference between Conner/Austin and the players they are typically guarding. There's a skill set difference between Willis/Zach/Markis and the players they are guarding. I have to assume that gap will shrink in the coming seasons.

Bingo.

Imagine in a few seasons, getting player like Kelly who more skilled offensively and a player like Zach, who can be a legitimate ball handler.

We should start to see the gap close on players who are skilled, yet not quite athletic and players who are athletic, yet not quite as skilled to players who are both skilled and athletic .

[ShockerPrez]

The issue is ZB has regressed. MM has regressed. RK stayed about the same, Nurger fell off, maybe hard to tell. Frankcamp is about what he always was, hit or miss. Shamet and Shaq are studs and the only consistent pieces. Reaves is learning, but has some work to do. Needs to stay healthy to bulk up.

No question we have some guys coming in. Next year is a question mark, but the talent will be there.

Our defense has got to improve.

Our end of game plays just suck.

[Rlh04d]

I'd disagree on RK -- he's been noticeably better this year. Maybe not in points scored (though he scored 26 in the AAC tournament, including a career high against Temple), but he's playing an extra 7.2 MPG, grabbing an extra 2.7 RPG, and doubled both his assists and blocks per game, on top of continuing to be a very solid defender.

ZB and MM have clearly regressed, and Frankamp's 3PT% is nearly the lowest of his career, and 9.7% below last season.

[Shox The Revenant]

Please stop the "MVC players" garbage, makes us sound like Creighton fans. We recruit players to play games on big stages against the best teams, regardless of what league we're in. When you look and see what our "MVC players" have accomplished in Marshall's time here, it's pretty evident that they're not "MVC players".

You get the hell outta here with that BS. It boggles the mind that the simple premise of a better conference means better players escapes that pea sized brain of yours. Since you evidently know so darn much, why don't you tally the number of 4 and 5 star players the MVC has had during HCGM's tenure with WSU, and then compare that to how many the AAC has had. Here's a tidbit for you; since 2013 the AAC has had 17 player commitments who were 4 or 5 star rated players. Now Einstein, tell me how many the MVC has had in the same time frame? I rest my case.

[Rlh04d]

I'm not sure how your reply had anything to do with his point -- he complained about people saying our players are "MVC players," and you responded with "MVC players are MVC players, duh." And then tripled the oddity of your post by adding a dozen insults.

Of course the AAC has better players than the MVC. Much like we had better players than the MVC.

[ShauXTyme]

Not to get into someone else’s argument, but wouldn’t you want to get down to a “team” basis rather than a conference basis for that argument. I don’t actually know the numbers, but WSU could have had 5, 4-5* players during that time frame, while no team in the AAC had more than 3, and your argument would be worthless. Just sayin’, data can be great If you use it correctly.

[ShockerFever]

You get the hell outta here with that BS. It boggles the mind that the simple premise of a better conference means better players escapes that pea sized brain of yours. Since you evidently know so darn much, why don't you tally the number of 4 and 5 star players the MVC has had during HCGM's tenure with WSU, and then compare that to how many the AAC has had. Here's a tidbit for you; since 2013 the AAC has had 17 player commitments who were 4 or 5 star rated players. Now Einstein, tell me how many the MVC has had in the same time frame? I rest my case.

His point was that we don't have to have 4 or 5 star players to win and do damage in March.

[SHOCKvalue]

Check out @KWCHWill’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/KWCHWill/status/...376719360?s=09

options that where not taken

Marshall’s WAY more calm about this crap than he used to be. Credit the at-large breathing space the new conference affords us.

[SHOCKvalue]

You get the hell outta here with that BS. It boggles the mind that the simple premise of a better conference means better players escapes that pea sized brain of yours. Since you evidently know so darn much, why don't you tally the number of 4 and 5 star players the MVC has had during HCGM's tenure with WSU, and then compare that to how many the AAC has had. Here's a tidbit for you; since 2013 the AAC has had 17 player commitments who were 4 or 5 star rated players. Now Einstein, tell me how many the MVC has had in the same time frame? I rest my case.

At the risk of stating the obvious, conference averages mean jack **** to Marshall’s system and results.

Oh, and trotting out 17 4/5 stars spread over 11 programs and five years is not impressive in the slightest. WSU themselves has bettered that rate, while being in the MVC, which I guess is sorta kinda the whole point.

[Shox The Revenant]

His point was that we don't have to have 4 or 5 star players to win and do damage in March.

And he missed my point. He's referring to March Madness and I'm talking about conference play. If we were still in the MVC, our record would be 30-2 and we'd all be feeling good right now with a regular season and tourney championship on our belt. It is my opinion that over the long haul, the type of players we are bringing into the program will not suffice in keeping us as a top 3 AAC team. Heck, we're just one player away (Landry) from being a .500 AAC team. That player just so happens to be a first round NBA talent, but one 4 star recruit every other year is not going to cut the mustard in this conference if we want to stay relevant.

The AAC added 5 losses to the ticker which we normally would not have sustained if we were in the MVC, not to mention all the other close games we've had that we are not accustomed too as well. That is entirely based on the level of players the Shox are facing night in and night out. He suggests that if we continue to recruit at the same level, we'll be just fine. I say BS. Everyone on this board has seen our weaknesses being exposed in this league, weaknesses that would never amount to a hill of beans in the MVC. Depending on how you look at it, we were fortunate to enter the league at a time when UCONN, Memphis and Temple were down due to the challenges they currently have. If they were at 'normal' levels, would we have finished second and go into March Madness with 25 wins?

I'm only saying that we will need to keep up with the Jonses in recruiting and a 4 star recruit every other year probably gets us in the top 3 of the league, but this assumes UCONN, Memphis and Temple remain at their current levels. Otherwise, HCGM will need to bring in higher volumes of players that match the talents we are seeing in the AAC in order for us to remain an upper tier program in the conference.

[wusphlash]

A lot of those games we lost we had makeable shots to win. Go back to 2012 when Garrett had 10 footers to beat ISUR and VCU in back to back games. You don't have to be a 4 or 5 star player to make one play. Somebody needs to step up and make one.

[Rlh04d]

This is what's struck me recently. In the past, even if we didn't get the shot to fall, we had a shot in the air. This year we're not even getting a shot off, whether it's problems inbounding the ball or getting any kind of clean look. If you get a clean shot off, you're going to assume we're probably winning 40-45% of these opportunities -- the shot either lands or doesn't, and should land at the % of the shooter. If we were getting a shot off in each of these games and still losing 10 straight, I'd say that's a fluke and we're due. When we're struggling massively with even getting a shot to take, it's not a fluke and we're losing these games because we're not good enough to get a shot in the air.

[ripemupshocks]

You get the hell outta here with that BS. It boggles the mind that the simple premise of a better conference means better players escapes that pea sized brain of yours. Since you evidently know so darn much, why don't you tally the number of 4 and 5 star players the MVC has had during HCGM's tenure with WSU, and then compare that to how many the AAC has had. Here's a tidbit for you; since 2013 the AAC has had 17 player commitments who were 4 or 5 star rated players. Now Einstein, tell me how many the MVC has had in the same time frame? I rest my case.

[SHOCKvalue]

FVV, LS, MM, CF all top 100/4 star. Several juco 1st team AA’s over the same period which might as well be the same thing.

2019 class of six has three top 100/4 stars in AL, CM and Pooh Bear.

2019 has one commitment in DeAntoni Gordon, who’s an ESPN 4 star.

So yeah... good take on LS being the only 4 star in the WSU system/pipeline.

[ShockingButTrue]

And he missed my point. He's referring to March Madness and I'm talking about conference play. If we were still in the MVC, our record would be 30-2 and we'd all be feeling good right now with a regular season and tourney championship on our belt. It is my opinion that over the long haul, the type of players we are bringing into the program will not suffice in keeping us as a top 3 AAC team. Heck, we're just one player away (Landry) from being a .500 AAC team. That player just so happens to be a first round NBA talent, but one 4 star recruit every other year is not going to cut the mustard in this conference if we want to stay relevant.

The AAC added 5 losses to the ticker which we normally would not have sustained if we were in the MVC, not to mention all the other close games we've had that we are not accustomed too as well. That is entirely based on the level of players the Shox are facing night in and night out. He suggests that if we continue to recruit at the same level, we'll be just fine. I say BS. Everyone on this board has seen our weaknesses being exposed in this league, weaknesses that would never amount to a hill of beans in the MVC. Depending on how you look at it, we were fortunate to enter the league at a time when UCONN, Memphis and Temple were down due to the challenges they currently have. If they were at 'normal' levels, would we have finished second and go into March Madness with 25 wins?

I'm only saying that we will need to keep up with the Jonses in recruiting and a 4 star recruit every other year probably gets us in the top 3 of the league, but this assumes UCONN, Memphis and Temple remain at their current levels. Otherwise, HCGM will need to bring in higher volumes of players that match the talents we are seeing in the AAC in order for us to remain an upper tier program in the conference.

Can't say I agree with this take in part. We have the same number of losses as a projected #1 seed heading into March Madness.

We'll probably be a 5 seed. We're more highly regarded than last year's squad.

Who says Cinci and Houston will remain at their current levels next season? What if Landry comes back (maybe...)?

[Shock Top]

It’s sucks we’ve lost all three of the biggest games of
the season this year.

- Final of Maui
- Regular season hampionship game against Cinci
- Conference semifinal vs Houston.

Bad trend, but hopefully that gives them experience heading into next week to avoid that again.

[ShockingButTrue]

I fully expect it to.

There's lots of good teams out there that didn't win the regular season or a post season tourney that are considered to be pretty good teams.

[FlyingWheat]

Um, I’d say @UC was the biggest/toughest game of the year. If that doesn’t happen, vs UC isn’t so big.

[Shoxfan11]

FVV, LS, MM, CF all top 100/4 star. Several juco 1st team AA’s over the same period which might as well be the same thing.

2019 class of six has three top 100/4 stars in AL, CM and Pooh Bear.

2019 has one commitment in DeAntoni Gordon, who’s an ESPN 4 star.

So yeah... good take on LS being the only 4 star in the WSU system/pipeline.

Wait a minute. Revenant's style of talking is eerily similar to a poster who was on here long ago. Combine that with the bad take, and it gets me even more curious. Add all of that to the fact that his join date is the same as this guy's last activity.... https://shockernet.net/member/473-kc-shox

It all makes sense now

[ShockingButTrue]

hahahahahahahaha

[SHOCKvalue]

I thought that last night too, but kept my mouth shut. Good ol’ gloom n’ doom KC Shox.

[ShockerFever]

Hmmmmmmmm.

Nice research.

It'll be interesting evaluating this fella going forward.