PG Malcolm Armstead (Transfer from Oregon)

[SB Shock]

You're clueless, SB. Marshall should keep right on doing what he's been doing. WSU won a national tournament for the the FIRST TIME EVER last season.

Call me names all you want - just means you lost the argument and can't rebuttal.

After losing Durley, Blair, Hatch and Ellis there are a lot of IF's and unproven players who have not shown they can carry the load consistently yet.

If you're so upset about it (####?), you really shouldn't renew your season tickets.

Piss off brat. I will do what I want and don't need no punk ass kid to tell me what I should do or don't.

WSU, after 25 and 29 win seasons, is still moving up.. old timer (read 90s) loser mentalitys got to go.. get out of the way.

I was at WSU when the Basketball team was NCAA tournament team, a Top 10 team. I wasn't around in the 90's because I was on the Uncle Sam vacation plan seeing the world.

'Can't wait to see Baker in there with Williams and Armstead and Egharevba. WSU is quite loaded for the forseeable future. Don't ever underestimate the MVC, but WSU looks to be a threat for years to come.

You wouldn't know what a loaded team is even if it jumped up and bit you on your white pimpled butt.

[ShockerFever]

Marshall won an NIT title, WSU mowing down the competition, and he's the fifth best coach in WSU history? Just wow.. Pull your head out of your ass Aargh. Last year, with 29 wins and an NIT title, is what qualifies for a slipup these days. Or maybe you think WSU should have overcome that great UNI team the year before, when WSU bagged 25 wins and finally made the MVC tourney champ game? Maybe you're still dissappointed in the home NIT loss to Nevada (whom actually fielded two NBAers) but content with the home NIT loss to Fla St? Is that what's eating you? To hell with not renewing season tickets.. like the kids today say, you need to log off.

Being 5th best isn't really out of question at this point in time. It's definitely in the ballpark. You sounded flabbergasted by the remark. Where would you put Marshall? First? :roll:

And some of you need to slow your roll a tad. After getting over the disappointment of another season with an NCAA berth, I too enjoyed our NIT run. But let's remember one thing. It's the NIT and we were in it for a reason. Can you name the team who won the NIT 2 years ago, 3 years ago, without looking it up? There's a reason why there was only 2,000 people at MSG for the Championship game, with about 1/3 of those being Shocker fans. Let's please keep things in perspective. We secured a championship that garnered us as roughly the 40th best team in the nation. Nice, but not jumping for joy, this program is back on the map kind of thing. For that to come to fruition, this upcoming season would need to result in an appearance in a tournament people actually pay attention to..

[shox1989]

Hey Mr Coffee, it is Fogler not Folger

Also, Coach Marshall plays within the rules. We cannot say that about some of our past coaches.

I will take the NIT Championship over an a single game (loss) in the NCAA. However, the Shocks do need to win a Valley Championship and some NCAA wins for Coach Marshall to rank higher than 4th on a list of great coaches.

I agree but right now I would place him about 6th place.

In my book Gary Thompson who coached our only final 4 team and Harry Miller with players like Cheese Johnson and Bob Elmore and took us to the ncaa tourney both should be above Marshall.

Get to the dance and win some games and he can be talked about as one of the top WSU coaches. But he has only been coach 4 years and hopefully he will get many wins in the dance for WSU in the future.

Until he can get us to the dance and get us some wins, he really hasn't accomplished that much.

[ShockerFever]

I will take the NIT Championship over an a single game (loss) in the NCAA.

This is an embarrassing stance to sit on and it's one that I still fail to comprehend.

Arkansas-Little Rock got more play and recognition in their opening round loss than our run through the NIT.

Accepting this type of mentality absolutely destroys the expectations of a strong program and further supports mediocrity in all levels of the current program, from the AD and coaching staff on down.. :roll:

[pinstripers]

Nobody remembers the first round losers in the NCAA tournament from 2 or 3 years ago either, ya know.

[Snapshot9]

No it doesn't Fever, you are trying to put words onto someone's thoughts.
It simply means the value of 5 good wins is better than one loss. It was good for the team, and good for WSU. It extended the season (sold more tickets), gained us some recognition and a Championship. The team pulled together in the NIT run, and it was nice to see.

But that does not mean that we don't want the team to get to the Dance and win some games there too. The goal is still the same.

[ShockTalk]

Hey Mr Coffee, it is Fogler not Folger

Also, Coach Marshall plays within the rules. We cannot say that about some of our past coaches.

I will take the NIT Championship over an a single game (loss) in the NCAA. However, the Shocks do need to win a Valley Championship and some NCAA wins for Coach Marshall to rank higher than 4th on a list of great coaches.

I don't think I will ever spell fast Eddie's name right. I've been caught with this faux pas more than once before.

[ShockTalk]

I will take the NIT Championship over an a single game (loss) in the NCAA.

This is an embarrassing stance to sit on and it's one that I still fail to comprehend.

Arkansas-Little Rock got more play and recognition in their opening round loss than our run through the NIT.

Accepting this type of mentality absolutely destroys the expectations of a strong program and further supports mediocrity in all levels of the current program, from the AD and coaching staff on down.. :roll:

SF, I agree with your premise. Getting to the Dance is the goal and even with a first round loss, may get you more recognition and more help with recruiting than an NIT championship. However, for returning players, the experience they gained through 5 quality wins should go farther than a first round NCAA loss and they would still have that drive to make the Dance. And as an accomplishment (not saying that gets you anything), those 5 NIT wins is greater than a one and done Dance number.

[ShockerFever]

Nobody remembers the first round losers in the NCAA tournament from 2 or 3 years ago either, ya know.

I do. Test me.

[ShockerFever]

I will take the NIT Championship over an a single game (loss) in the NCAA.

This is an embarrassing stance to sit on and it's one that I still fail to comprehend.

Arkansas-Little Rock got more play and recognition in their opening round loss than our run through the NIT.

Accepting this type of mentality absolutely destroys the expectations of a strong program and further supports mediocrity in all levels of the current program, from the AD and coaching staff on down.. :roll:

SF, I agree with your premise. Getting to the Dance is the goal and even with a first round loss, may get you more recognition and more help with recruiting than an NIT championship. However, for returning players, the experience they gained through 5 quality wins should go farther than a first round NCAA loss and they would still have that drive to make the Dance. And as an accomplishment (not saying that gets you anything), those 5 NIT wins is greater than a one and done Dance number.

I get the whole experience thing, but it's still not something to be hoping for in the long term. Dayton won the NIT title in 2010. Did that help them out in 2011? South Carolina won a string of titles in the mid-2000's. It didn't send them to the NCAA's in subsequent years.

Would you rather be sitting on the bench on a high-level Division I basketball team or starting for the Prarie Dog State NAIA school?

I'm sorry, but an NCAA first-round loss still means we were better than being designated to the NIT field and winning the whole thing. At the time, it's a nice feel-good ending to the season. But in the grand scheme of things, it means diddle.

[Aargh]

I think the conversation has just about gone full circle to the original topic, which is the signing of a one-year trfr PG.

I think WSU had a good shot at making the NCAA's this year, if they had signed another front court player. The back court this year is solid as a rock. The front court is thin and has question marks everywhere you look.

Signing a PG for '12-'13 doesn't do anything to address the weaknesses in '11-'12. The '11-'12 team could be an NCAA team, but one injury or a couple of foul-plagued games could destroy that possibility. What happens if Stutz and Hall both get in foul trouble in the same game?

Some posters have given up on DWill because they feel we need an upper class PG in '12-'13. An upper class PG is supposed to have 2 or 3 years experience in the system - not a one-year transfer with no game experience in the system. First-year PG's are always question marks at the beginning of the season. Neither Ragland nor Hannah was anywhere close to their ultimate capabilities early in their first season - and they hadn't sat out for a year.

I'm not down on Marshall. I like him better than a couple of the coaches I rank above him in WSU history. Winning the NIT is probably a legitimate claim to being the actual number 41 team in the nation. That's generally not even in the "Also getting votes" category in the polls.

That's below my expectations for WSU when there's a good coach in charge. '10-'11 looked like Marshall's best shot (including the near future). '11-'12 looked like a possible breakthrough year, but another front court player was the obvious need.

If there was a need for an upper class PG in '12-'13, why? Marshall had 4 years to avoid that problem, but apparently did not. Now there's a need to patch the PG position again in '13-'14 because of 2 Sr PG's that year. If we sign a '12-'13 HS PG, then we will have 4 PG's on the roster, which means another position will be thin.

Combo guards seem to be able to ply PG if there's no other option, but I'm starting to think that a solid D1 team needs a PG , and that combo guards are exposed a shooting guards in disguise when forced to play the point.

[BOBB]

Needed a big this year, got a guard for next year. Unless White and Ehimen are ready to go major minutes we are going to have some real struggles with the frontcourt depth. Maybe coach is expecting big things from these guys, or maybe we just missed on a serviceable Juco big. Hall and Stutz better be in great condition.

[Dan]

I see major minutes at the 4 in Ben Smith's future.

[wufan]

I see major minutes at the 4 in Ben Smith's future.

I don't. Ede and Walker are the #3 and 4 options at the PF. EO and White will have to be ready to go and GS and Hall have to live up to expectations.

[ShoxFan963]

I see major minutes at the 4 in Ben Smith's future.

Major minutes? No. In a pinch, sure.