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**vancedave56** · February 23, 2018, 07:17 PM

loan

**Zubcut** · February 23, 2018, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post

If you don't have something nice to say about Fred, how about joining me for a long swig of STFU and go to hell?

EVERYONE here has something nice to say about Fred. That's not the point. We all realize what he brought to the program, the university and the community. But to not acknowledge that he apparently did something that has the potential to harm that same university is ridiculous and myopic to the extreme. He shouldn't be and won't be shunned. Your Godfather quote was cute, but I'm not sure anyone is going to lose sleep around here because your forgiveness isn't forthcoming. WSU allumni and fans don't need to be preached to about their opinions. This is a message board. Opinions are what this place is about. I respect your opinions and wouldn't say you can't express them. It seems that you believe if someone holds a different opinion than you they should just STFU and go to hell. Welcome to 2018 in the USA.

**ShockerFever** · February 23, 2018, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post

No. No. No.

When evidence comes out that a man beat his wife, you don’t say “well, I dated him once, and he didn’t abuse ME”.

You don’t need to call Fred the devil (he’s not), and you don’t need to instantly start overreaching on judgements as facts are just starting to trickle in, but don’t you dare start making pathetic defenses like that. Also, yes, his legacy and absolutely up in the air. To say otherwise is to be a massive homer.

As of 6:45 PM CST 2/23/18, 31 likes to 3.

**shocker43** · February 23, 2018, 07:53 PM

It's not like he was accepting bribes to commit to a school. He didn't accept money to make himself or the team perform better. I highly doubt there is a single person in the WSU AD that knew anything about him taking the money. Yes it sucks that WSU is being included in these discussions. Yes I am sad that Fred's name is being drug through the mud because of this situation. Fred gave everything he had every single night he was on the floor. He was a great ambassador for the program. He will continue to be a great ambassador for the program regardless of this situation.

Seriously, what reasonable fan or sports analyst is taking the side of NCAA on this issue?

**Zubcut** · February 23, 2018, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by shocker43 View Post

It's not like he was accepting bribes to commit to a school. He didn't accept money to make himself or the team perform better. I highly doubt there is a single person in the WSU AD that knew anything about him taking the money. Yes it sucks that WSU is being included in these discussions. Yes I am sad that Fred's name is being drug through the mud because of this situation. Fred gave everything he had every single night he was on the floor. He was a great ambassador for the program. He will continue to be a great ambassador for the program regardless of this situation.

Seriously, what reasonable fan or sports analyst is taking the side of NCAA on this issue?

This Yahoo story isn't about an NCAA investigation. It's a criminal investigation concerning fraud, money laundering, tax fraud, etc. Now, the NCAA will certainly get involved after the fact because this also involves NCAA violations. The FBI doesn't give a crap about NCAA violations. Those are just a byproduct of what they ARE investigating.

**AZ Shocker** · February 23, 2018, 08:08 PM

We got a BIG GAME tomorrow!

**im4wsu** · February 23, 2018, 08:48 PM

[QUOTE
Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post

No. No. No.

When evidence comes out that a man beat his wife, you don’t say “well, I dated him once, and he didn’t abuse ME”.

You don’t need to call Fred the devil (he’s not), and you don’t need to instantly start overreaching on judgements as facts are just starting to trickle in, but don’t you dare start making pathetic defenses like that. Also, yes, his legacy and absolutely up in the air. To say otherwise is to be a massive homer.
. [/QUOTE]

Or maybe it could be stating a fact. Facts do not necessarily equate to excuses.

**im4wsu** · February 23, 2018, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Shock Top View Post

Fred achieved astronomical things at WSU and put the university in a place one could only dream of. He will always be reminded for that. He should be thanked for that.

However, if he did break the rules, however minuscule and whatever the amount, that still puts a blackmark on the university. Who knows how severe, if any, the punishment will be, but if Fred (and his family) did take that money, it was their own actions that caused this.

Does it suck? Absolutely.
Do I wish that money wasn’t an issue, so they didn’t feel they had to take it? Of course.
Does Fred deserve to be remembered and thanked for 99.9% of his tenure at WSU? Without a doubt.
What effect will this have on WSU and Fred’s longtime legacy (Jersey retirement, etc.)? Who knows.

I believe opinions are hot and heavy because it feels to a lot of us like our own kid did this. Our own kid who we thought was invincible to such actions. Some people get sad, some people get angry, some people try to rationalize. None of which are right or wrong. It’s just how people deal with situations differently.

Fred transcended basketball in Wichita, he represented the best of us. He made us proud and showed everyone how to do things the right way. That’s why learning this, whatever your opinions on the rules and the NCAA, is so hard to take. We all make mistakes, and we all have to live with the consequences our actions, just as Fred will have to live with his.

Hopefully, for everyone’s sake, that this will be a small setback on an otherwise great run this university has been on; a run Fred was a major part in. Time heals all and, at the end of all this, Fred will almost assuredly be remembered as one of the greatest Shockers to every put on a uniform.

Antoine's jersey is hanging in the rafters (see article posted about his illegal benefits), so it would be insanely hypocritical to let this affect Fred's final legacy (at least if this is as much as it amounts to).

**swiltar71** · February 23, 2018, 09:49 PM

True story
A few years ago, one of our assistant coaches was joking with a Louisville assistant (and friend) "why did you guys let KU take cliff Alexander from you?" The Louisville asst. said point blank, "he told us KU was paying $150,000. We couldn't match that." There are much bigger fish to fry here. I hope they get fried.
It has been disappointing news, but I can't believe the coaches or university knew or could have controlled the situation. As many have said, let's let the facts come out.

**Downtown Shocker Brown** · February 23, 2018, 10:11 PM

I keep seeing words like “illegal” and “rules”.

Just curious how many have read the NCAA rules fromt to back? How many know what variables still exist regarding whether ANY of these players violated NCAA rules?

Ill hang up and listen.

**1972Shocker** · February 24, 2018, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by shocker43 View Post

I highly doubt there is a single person in the WSU AD that knew anything about him taking the money.

Seriously, what reasonable fan or sports analyst is taking the side of NCAA on this issue?

Wichita State has, in fact, issued a statement stating that they had no knowledge of the alleged payments to Fred and his Stepdad.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...201819574.html

At this point the NCAA is not involved although they obviously will be at some point. I guess the question in Fred's case was not that he accepted any impermissable benefits because the agent was most not likely a Wichita State booster nor associated in any way with Wichita State. Seems like the issue with Fred was that he and his stepdad accepting money from the agent most likely terminated Fred's amateur status under the NCAA rules. Although I am not totally sure this is how it will be viewed. Any wins earned after that point may have to be vacated. However, it sounds like the NCAA may have much more serious issues to deal with before they can get around the dealing with the Fred issue.

**Shocker1976** · February 24, 2018, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by Shocker Mama View Post

I am not drawing any conclusions until I know what all the evidence is. Fred deserves that.

Everyone deserves this consideration.

**another shocker** · February 24, 2018, 07:30 AM

it's about time for somebody to sue the ncaa again, like tark the shark did and won. proactive.

**Jamar Howard 4 President** · February 24, 2018, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by ShockerFever View Post

Why do you only find time to post about things like these and not, you know, the actual basketball games?

Check out who clicked like to the following post of me talking about, you know, the actual basketball games.

Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post

McDuff with a bailout foul with 3 on the shot clock, then a charge on offense.

Boooooooo. Such a disappointment this year.

**Kung Wu** · February 24, 2018, 09:59 AM

Jamar Howard 4 President, have you ever intentionally went 5mph over the posted speed limit? You know, driven down Kellogg at 65mph? Or maybe went 45mph in a 40mph zone? Even once in your life? Dead serious question.

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