Announcement

**swiltar71** · February 23, 2018, 04:14 PM

I haven't read all 11 pages of the other thread, so maybe this is out of line, but I don't care if Fred got paid after he was here by a guy who wanted to behind agent after he graduated! I do care about players and there families getting paid to go to certain schools. Does no one else see the difference? Fred was and is still a great person I am proud to be associated with.

**Kel Varnsen** · February 23, 2018, 04:17 PM

Well said.

**wsushox1** · February 23, 2018, 04:25 PM

God bless you Doc. More well said, with personal experience, than my uneloquent and blunt post in the other thread.

It is embarrassing that some people say Fred would never be welcome back.

**ShockdaWorld** · February 23, 2018, 04:35 PM

So much agree, Doc. Regardless of how this all turns out, I’d be honored to take Fred and his family to dinner or drinks, or anything else, just to have the opportunity to thank him for everything he’s done for WSU and the Wichita community in general, not to mention all the wonderful things he’s doing for Rockford.

**WuShock16** · February 23, 2018, 04:43 PM

Mea culpa from me for a comment I made. I certainly made an inappropriate knee-jerk reaction. It was not that I want Fred to be shunned but I certainly fear it, especially if the NCAA comes calling with any sort of strong punishment. As someone else mentioned, I don't want to be anywhere near the location of the next conversation between Fred and Gregg.

But yes, Fred made us proud on so many levels...in many ways that have nothing to do with scoring more points than an opponent on a given night.

**Jamar Howard 4 President** · February 23, 2018, 05:09 PM

No. No. No.

When evidence comes out that a man beat his wife, you don’t say “well, I dated him once, and he didn’t abuse ME”.

You don’t need to call Fred the devil (he’s not), and you don’t need to instantly start overreaching on judgements as facts are just starting to trickle in, but don’t you dare start making pathetic defenses like that. Also, yes, his legacy and absolutely up in the air. To say otherwise is to be a massive homer.

**wsushockerdude** · February 23, 2018, 05:14 PM

It's a message board. It's literally the point.

**shoxlax** · February 23, 2018, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post

No. No. No.

When evidence comes out that a man beat his wife, you don’t say “well, I dated him once, and he didn’t abuse ME”.

You don’t need to call Fred the devil (he’s not), and you don’t need to instantly start overreaching on judgements as facts are just starting to trickle in, but don’t you dare start making pathetic defenses like that. Also, yes, his legacy and absolutely up in the air. To say otherwise is to be a massive homer.

What defense is pathetic? All Doc is saying is the goodness in FVV far far outweighs the act in question and that’s how anyone reasonable should view it. Big deal. That’s his opinion and it’s mine too.

**DUShock** · February 23, 2018, 05:28 PM

I am thankful that people are speaking their mind. I appreciate Jamar Howard 4 President giving his perspective as I appreciate WuDrWu sharing his thoughts.

For me, all I can say is that I am disappointed.

**Shock Top** · February 23, 2018, 05:33 PM

Fred achieved astronomical things at WSU and put the university in a place one could only dream of. He will always be reminded for that. He should be thanked for that.

However, if he did break the rules, however minuscule and whatever the amount, that still puts a blackmark on the university. Who knows how severe, if any, the punishment will be, but if Fred (and his family) did take that money, it was their own actions that caused this.

Does it suck? Absolutely.
Do I wish that money wasn’t an issue, so they didn’t feel they had to take it? Of course.
Does Fred deserve to be remembered and thanked for 99.9% of his tenure at WSU? Without a doubt.
What effect will this have on WSU and Fred’s longtime legacy (Jersey retirement, etc.)? Who knows.

I believe opinions are hot and heavy because it feels to a lot of us like our own kid did this. Our own kid who we thought was invincible to such actions. Some people get sad, some people get angry, some people try to rationalize. None of which are right or wrong. It’s just how people deal with situations differently.

Fred transcended basketball in Wichita, he represented the best of us. He made us proud and showed everyone how to do things the right way. That’s why learning this, whatever your opinions on the rules and the NCAA, is so hard to take. We all make mistakes, and we all have to live with the consequences our actions, just as Fred will have to live with his.

Hopefully, for everyone’s sake, that this will be a small setback on an otherwise great run this university has been on; a run Fred was a major part in. Time heals all and, at the end of all this, Fred will almost assuredly be remembered as one of the greatest Shockers to every put on a uniform.

**WSUwatcher** · February 23, 2018, 05:39 PM

3G didn't just fall of the turnip truck, and he hasn't spent his career recruiting suburban H-O-R-S-E guys, so I suspect he's likely to be more understanding of what apparently happened here than you might anticipate, 16. I can't imagine he'll be happy about it, and it's true that Marshall has been known to express his disappointment in fairly strong terms. But I think he's far more likely to be angry with the agent than with Fred (or even with his dad, who certainly should have known better, even if he isn't the first urban cop ever to be tempted).

If there were a chat you wouldn't want to overhear, much less allow the women and children to be anywhere near, that's the one -- Marshall and the agent. And that's where you're likely to see WSU's internal protections really strengthened (to the extent it's fully possible), is keeping the agents away from the players. More warnings for the players, and more barriers for the agents.

**Jhook89** · February 23, 2018, 05:46 PM

It’s unfair to jump to any conclusions at this point. We do not have all the information and have not heard from Fred on the issue. I would say he deserves our benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

That being said, if Fred did accept improper benefits that is not something you can just sweep under the rug. That is a selfish decision that could lead to his teammates and coaches having to forfeit wins, stats, a conference championship, and NCAA tournament wins they all worked very hard to achieve.

I think it it is ridiculous that a player can not use his skills/talents/fame to profit and better ones position, but unfortunately they can’t.

**mjbaker84** · February 23, 2018, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post

I know it's a message board, and everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but just stop it now.

I don't want to go into details. I don't want to debate.

Fred VanVleet is a friend. Not one of my close friends, but a friend. In my position, he could have asked, or hinted, or expected any number of extra benefits from me. For 5 years he could have. His family could have. Never once did they or even hint at taking advantage of something. For 4 years everything he did, everything that came out of his mouth, supported, defended and encouraged our city, our University and our program. YOU COULD NOT ASK FOR MORE from a young man. Bet on yourself? Hell, he bet on us and then paid us off like we rolled 11 ten times in a row. How many smiles did he bring to the faces of kids? Of kids in hospitals? Of elderly sick or dying fans? How many times did he make YOU proud to be a Shocker?

Stop disrespecting his accomplishments and legacy. Stop talking like he's not welcome back. Stop talking about how you're so much above that.

Stop talking down about a young man that has done more for this University and this city than any 100 of us could ever dream of doing. If you don't have something nice to say about Fred, how about joining me for a long swig of STFU and go to hell?

Just effing stop it. Please.

One more thing. The next time I see Fred, if I'm embarrassed because of some of the things said here, I'm going to remember who said it, and those things I will not forgive. Not that anyone cares.

I guess I am not sure what you are trying to prove good or bad? You personally know Fred and have had great experiences, interactions, and life experiences with him. Most/some of us have not met him and only watched him in person or on tv. You act like our opinions are much less important than yours?

Based on what has been posted currently ( and things can certainly change): he took benefits that would be deemed illegal by the NCAA. There is zero dispute of that currently. Wichita State is currently being included/mentioned/listed with other violators such as KU, Duke, MSU, Alabama, USC, etc.

I would never say he is not welcome or should be shunned from Wichita or WSU. What I do agree with is... he has tarnished his legacy and WSU just by being mentioned. Did you see how hard the NCAA dumped on WSU for the baseball fiasco?

Now Fred cannot be punished as he is no longer a student-athlete, WSU is literally the only thing that can be punished from this.

Please temper and tame your outburst on fellow Shocker fans and alumni on future posts.

**Shocker Mama** · February 23, 2018, 07:13 PM

I am not drawing any conclusions until I know what all the evidence is. Fred deserves that.

Announcement

Stop It

Stop It

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment