Florida State fans, please read

[William]

I think it would behoove Shocker fans to recognize that we have extended Musgrave and Shafer at times this year more than I ever remember doing before. It's a recognition, I think, by our coaches that when it comes to the post season, if you want to advance, you have to "do what it takes," and that may mean using pitchers in a way contrary to what's ideal.

Amen, if there is one thing I can't stand, it is the self-righteous pitcher abuse crowd.

Schafer-136 pitches
Capra - 125 pitches

There are teams in MLB that limit their SP to 100 pitches.

HELLO?

Hello what?
136 & 125 when you throw once a week is not a big deal. Some MLB have 100 pitch counts on certain pitchers mostly due to a season that starts in February and lasts until October. There is a big difference.
WSU is extremely careful with their pitchers. As mentioned, ask Shafer's pop the next time you run into him. 8)

Based upon the use of Shafer before arriving at WSU, Dave Van Horn would come off as the utmost custodian of Aaron's arm, but that's not the point. I agree that as far as college baseball is concerned BK is as good as it gets. Having said that, conventional wisdom would certainly not support throwing 120+ pitches in back-to-back starts.

I think the main point is - can we finally just stop worrying about what other teams are doing and start worrying about making them pay for using pitchers to the point where they lose effectiveness?

Perhaps I missed it, but where was all the indignation over OSU's usage of Robbie Weinhardt after the game?

I think our concern for other teams personnel decisions basically comes from our fear of losing more than our concern for Charlie Boyce/Daniel McCutchen/etc. careers.

Just like OSU fans blaming the umps or Gene, we have to find some injustice to blame our failure on.

You objective little truth teller you....spot on!

[tw805]

Let's look at this objectively for a second. If you were an FSU fan, taking a look at our schedule and results for the first time, would you not come to the same result? This board was full of bitching and moaning about not having beaten any of the tough teams on our schedule, and how that jobbed us out of hosting a regional. Now you're pissed because someone else comes in and recognizes the same thing? Our team didn't perform up to expectations during the regular season. I have no problem with another group of fans identifying that fact. If they want to call us that in the lead-up to the game, so what? They play the games for a reason.

How about giving credit where it is due: WSU deserves to be respected based on sweeping a conference and regional tournament; FSU deserves to be respected because they may have the best offense we're going to see in a long, long time.

[SHOCKvalue]

Let's look at this objectively for a second. If you were an FSU fan, taking a look at our schedule and results for the first time, would you not come to the same result? This board was full of bitching and moaning about not having beaten any of the tough teams on our schedule, and how that jobbed us out of hosting a regional. Now you're pissed because someone else comes in and recognizes the same thing? Our team didn't perform up to expectations during the regular season. I have no problem with another group of fans identifying that fact. If they want to call us that in the lead-up to the game, so what? They play the games for a reason.

How about giving credit where it is due: WSU deserves to be respected based on sweeping a conference and regional tournament; FSU deserves to be respected because they may have the best offense we're going to see in a long, long time.

Saying that we schedule/play a bunch of nobodies, and saying the we have lost when we should have won, are two completely different things.

You are addressing the latter, the FSU fans are trashing the former.

[tw805]

I guess I saw a little of both. Their reference to our "pud" schedule seemed to be solely derived from conference play. So in essence, their argument was two-fold: All our wins were against nobodies, and we lost anytime we played a "real" team. I'm not vouching for accuracy, but if you look at our schedule and results, I think there's at least a minimally rationally basis for that opinion. I can only hope their team feels the same way, and that we play our best ball of the season this weekend.

[newshock1234]

I guess I saw a little of both. Their reference to our "pud" schedule seemed to be solely derived from conference play. So in essence, their argument was two-fold: All our wins were against nobodies, and we lost anytime we played a "real" team. I'm not vouching for accuracy, but if you look at our schedule and results, I think there's at least a minimally rationally basis for that opinion. I can only hope their team feels the same way, and that we play our best ball of the season this weekend.

KC Shox did you get another shockernet id

[Shocker85]

Maybe someone should post the following on their forum in response to such a statement:

With a statistical wash such as this, the weak schedule card should be left in the deck.

EDIT: And I'd like to add that, so far, it's refreshing to see a more respectable fanbase from FSU than the OSU trash we had to deal with last weekend. Hopefully this can continue. Every fanbase has their "homers", but it seems at least as far as various forums' discussion went last weekend, there was virtually zero quality dialog going on between WSU and OSU fans.

Maybe you should go over there and stir them up.

Face it, FSU fans are not going to respect WSU. Ever. Even if the Shox win the series, there will be something like umps calls or whatever that they'll complain about that led to an "upset". It's the BCS mentality.

WSU's Schedule. Squat. Gillespie's .420+ BA. Squat. Dirks on-base streak. Squat. 3-man rotation with sub 3.00 ERA. Squat. We're just WSU, after all.

Time to get over it and move on.

--'85.

[shocks771]

I guess I saw a little of both. Their reference to our "pud" schedule seemed to be solely derived from conference play. So in essence, their argument was two-fold: All our wins were against nobodies, and we lost anytime we played a "real" team. I'm not vouching for accuracy, but if you look at our schedule and results, I think there's at least a minimally rationally basis for that opinion. I can only hope their team feels the same way, and that we play our best ball of the season this weekend.

KC Shox did you get another shockernet id

What has tw805 said that isn't true? We struggled against good competition all year long until this past weekend. I'm very happy that we are hitting our stride at the right time, but don't be so short-sighted that you don't acknowledge the obvious.

[newshock1234]

I guess I saw a little of both. Their reference to our "pud" schedule seemed to be solely derived from conference play. So in essence, their argument was two-fold: All our wins were against nobodies, and we lost anytime we played a "real" team. I'm not vouching for accuracy, but if you look at our schedule and results, I think there's at least a minimally rationally basis for that opinion. I can only hope their team feels the same way, and that we play our best ball of the season this weekend.

KC Shox did you get another shockernet id

What has tw805 said that isn't true? We struggled against good competition all year long until this past weekend. I'm very happy that we are hitting our stride at the right time, but don't be so short-sighted that you don't acknowledge the obvious.

when we pitch our best pitchers then we can obviously beat the best.

[shocks771]

I agree, but our regular season track record didn't completely show that. In our six games against quality competition on the weekend we went 3-3. Lost three to Long Beach and won three against TCU. I know that Capra was out against Long Beach, but it is what it is and I can see where an opposing team would think that we haven't beaten anyone worth a damn when they look at our regular season schedule.

[WuDrWu]

And I'd like to add that, so far, it's refreshing to see a more respectable fanbase from FSU than the OSU trash we had to deal with last weekend. Hopefully this can continue. Every fanbase has their "homers", but it seems at least as far as various forums' discussion went last weekend, there was virtually zero quality dialog going on between WSU and OSU fans.

As stated before, every fanbase including ours, has their share of knuckleheads. FSU's board seems to be run by a group of really sharp and fairminded individuals that look at things very objectively.

I remember great discussions surrounding the NIT game a few years ago. Mostly very respectful and yes, a real pleasure to be part of.....hopefully it will continue. It's much more enjoyable this way, to me at least.

[tw805]

I guess I saw a little of both. Their reference to our "pud" schedule seemed to be solely derived from conference play. So in essence, their argument was two-fold: All our wins were against nobodies, and we lost anytime we played a "real" team. I'm not vouching for accuracy, but if you look at our schedule and results, I think there's at least a minimally rationally basis for that opinion. I can only hope their team feels the same way, and that we play our best ball of the season this weekend.

KC Shox did you get another shockernet id

What has tw805 said that isn't true? We struggled against good competition all year long until this past weekend. I'm very happy that we are hitting our stride at the right time, but don't be so short-sighted that you don't acknowledge the obvious.

Thank God I have some cavalry! I knew I would get flamed, but I draw a KC Shox comparison?! Really?!

[SHOCKvalue]

Maybe you should go over there and stir them up.

Face it, FSU fans are not going to respect WSU. Ever. Even if the Shox win the series, there will be something like umps calls or whatever that they'll complain about. It's the BCS mentality.

Time to get over it and move on.

--'85.

I waste far too much productivity during the day just posting with fellow shox fans. If I started interacting on other schools forums, in high times of interest such as this, I'd be nearly 100% worthless... versus 75%. :whistle:

The BCS mentality does get old. OSU and FSU fans who both refuse to notice that we have a history of playing .500 or better ball against them, and have a similarly strong tradition. Then you have the nouveau-riche Nebraska fans who think college baseball started in 2000. We could go on and on. Deah horse, I guess. :roll:

[Shocker85]

I waste far too much productivity during the day just posting with fellow shox fans. If I started interacting on other schools forums, in high times of interest such as this, I'd be nearly 100% worthless... versus 75%. :whistle:

The BCS mentality does get old. OSU and FSU fans who both refuse to notice that we have a history of playing .500 or better ball against them, and have a similarly strong tradition. Then you have the nouveau-riche Nebraska fans who think college baseball started in 2000. We could go on and on. Deah horse, I guess. :roll:

Yep, just need to prove the Shox superiority on the field. Just win, baby.

--'85.

[SHOCKvalue]

What has tw805 said that isn't true?

He's saying that the FSU forums are flaming us for games we shouldn't have lost.

I'm saying the FSU forums are flaming us for our "cupcake schedule", a term literally used in a couple of threads of note on the FSU rivals board.

Two COMPLETELY different issues.

Go over there yourself and see which slant you think the trash-talking is taking.

http://floridastate.rivals.com/forum.asp?fid=1081

And yes, we have struggled all year against quality, midweek competition. I'm not arguing that. I don't think anybody would.

[KC Shox]

I guess I saw a little of both. Their reference to our "pud" schedule seemed to be solely derived from conference play. So in essence, their argument was two-fold: All our wins were against nobodies, and we lost anytime we played a "real" team. I'm not vouching for accuracy, but if you look at our schedule and results, I think there's at least a minimally rationally basis for that opinion. I can only hope their team feels the same way, and that we play our best ball of the season this weekend.

KC Shox did you get another shockernet id

Hey now! I resemble that comment! :D In all seriousness though, we got lucky, had Oliver pitched, I'm not so sure we are playing FSU. Oh and another thing, I got no problem with FSU fans looking at our schedule and scratching their heads. At face value, it is rather weak looking and we lost a lot of mid-week games against top tier competition.

I don't blame them for coming up with that idea. A lot of us were very frustrated as well. As fans of the program however, we are a lot more well informed on the talent on this team than FSU fans are. I hope FSU players overlook us and start thinking about the CWS before they play us.

I hope we can go into the ring with these guys and jab them to death. They'll be looking for the knockout punch but as they say speed kills. We CANNOT play 'gorilla' ball with these guys or we will get crushed.