Fire Todd Butler

[J2210P]

Regardless of one's position in the matter, I would hope that all WSU baseball fans could reasonably agree that the program is now a mess.

And I think it would further be reasonable to agree that it is disappointing that those with the tools to clean up the mess are apparently not interested in doing so.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. Extremely dissapointing. Unacceptable.

[ShockTalk]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/state-college-sports/article81184832.html

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...e76853942.html

So you're saying he made an exception? Would have looked bad to not even offer a guy with this much talent and local to boot. I'll change my tune when Butler starts signing the under 6' players.

I know you're invested in Butler, but four years was plenty of time to get into the top of the Valley heap, not its middle. I'm not asking for anything big here.

[washedup]

https://m.facebook.com/ginnyiz?tsid=...urce=typeahead

Man,Gene's fiance, Jana Howser also bringing it strong replying to that post,

[AndShock]

This is so sad.

One person posts a baseless opinion and everyone jumps on it like they are facts.

I bet it doesn't take 15 seconds to google this kid and Wichita State and find 5 articles talking about Coach Butler recruiting him.

This isn't 1995. It sure as heck isn't basketball where kids who get full athletic scholarships commit and decommit like crazy. This is a different world. These kids are getting fractional scholarships to play baseball. They have to find the programs they want to major in and the grants/scholarships to pay for the gaps.

Do a little research. See how many ot the top 500 HS baseball players in Class or 2018 have not already committed to a program. Keep in mind most of these will be drafted, and only end up on campus if spot money not high enough.

Now search 2019. Then 2020. That is where you will start to see a large number of high level players. If we "Fire Todd Butler", it is 2021 before we start to see an impact.

AAC will definitey help by putting us into North Carolina, Louisiana, Texas, Tennessee, etc. Hitting coach needs replaced yesterday. Sign Mike Steele if we can convince him to stay. Remember how many injuries to pitching staff we faced.

Y'all are becoming a sad bunch. Gonna bail again before you break out your rusted pitchforks.

When do we start to see an impact if we keep Todd Butler?

Spoiler: Never

[J2210P]

[QUOTE=OregonShocker;736390]

Those of us who do know are offended by such crass, horribly-spirited commentary.
A cloak of anonymity in such a forum is never a license to profess false knowledge. It is not OK. You are only worsening the future as any kind of base.QUOTE]

If YOU were present in the room, with first hand knowledge, then shed your cloak and I will humbly bow to your knowledge. I am the first to apologize when I have wrong info. If you weren't in the room, then your source is no more or less speculative than mine, right? Even those actually in the room may say something less than truthful for their own reasons. I only state that I've got a PRETTY good feel about cooperation, not certainty. But please, if you were there, correct me. I'll apologize.

Respectfully, I am crystal clear, with certainty. Any painted picture about lack of willingness should be so suspect. Does that sound consistent in the personality of a person who dedicated their adult lifetime not only teaching young men to be champions WITH and OF character, massive national baseball and academic excellence? Gene's players led the nation in academic All-Americans at all levels of NCAA Baseball from 1982 ON, while becoming one of the very most successful programs in history. Do these achievements happen by accident?
Do those qualities seem consistent with what a Hall of Fame coach teaches about character? If for any reason a lack of willingness to be involved in baseball now does not make sense, what he with his teams built, your're on the right track.
I, too, am the first to apologize if I am wrong. About this, accurate.

[Aargh]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/state-college-sports/article81184832.html

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...e76853942.html

the only evidence I see of any attempt to recruit ware is in this paragraph from the second link:

He’s taken visits, so far, to Oklahoma and Arkansas, who both have offered. K-State’s offer is still on the table. TCU, Nebraska and Wichita State all want him to take visits after the season.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

It sounds like Butler did try to recruit him. Apparently Butler called Neosho's coach and told him that WSU would like for Ware to visit.

From the other article, it's possible that was as close as Butler was ever going to get because Ware wanted to go to OU.

[Cdizzle]

This is so sad.

One person posts a baseless opinion and everyone jumps on it like they are facts.

I bet it doesn't take 15 seconds to google this kid and Wichita State and find 5 articles talking about Coach Butler recruiting him.

This isn't 1995. It sure as heck isn't basketball where kids who get full athletic scholarships commit and decommit like crazy. This is a different world. These kids are getting fractional scholarships to play baseball. They have to find the programs they want to major in and the grants/scholarships to pay for the gaps.

Do a little research. See how many ot the top 500 HS baseball players in Class or 2018 have not already committed to a program. Keep in mind most of these will be drafted, and only end up on campus if spot money not high enough.

Now search 2019. Then 2020. That is where you will start to see a large number of high level players. If we "Fire Todd Butler", it is 2021 before we start to see an impact.

AAC will definitey help by putting us into North Carolina, Louisiana, Texas, Tennessee, etc. Hitting coach needs replaced yesterday. Sign Mike Steele if we can convince him to stay. Remember how many injuries to pitching staff we faced.

Y'all are becoming a sad bunch. Gonna bail again before you break out your rusted pitchforks.

2020!?! So a coach should get 7 years before he gets good talent on campus? This must be a joke. This is a 4-paragraph excuse-train. Winners win.

[BOBB]

In some circumstances, perhaps. In this, crystal clear. For those who assume any "facts," mirrors would be perfect. Often, those who do the most pointing have the most introspection needed.

It is not that those of us who support Gene (including the legions of his players) are not "over" this. It is about setting the record straight. As a fan of the program, why wouldn't any of you seriously be concerned about NOT having it straight, particularly with such a nationally significant program history?
Those of us who do know are offended by such crass, horribly-spirited commentary.
A cloak of anonymity in such a forum is never a license to profess false knowledge. It is not OK. You are only worsening the future as any kind of base. Or, if you think that this does provide such a license, enjoy.

I know what was reported publicly. If all, some, or most of that is false, then Gene or his supporters owe it to the program and Gene's legacy to set the record straight with facts.

[molly jabali]

Man,Gene's fiance, Jana Howser also bringing it strong replying to that post,

My thought here??? How OLD is Gene...fiance???? Get married while you can!:)

[shockfan89_]

Can we please take the discussion about fHCGS to that thread? I know it's easy to mix the two, and I have been guilty of that as well, but this thread is about the current coaching situation. Not the one we lived through four years ago.

[J2210P]

I know what was reported publicly. If all, some, or most of that is false, then Gene or his supporters owe it to the program and Gene's legacy to set the record straight with facts.

👍 All involved parties are responsible and personally accountable for factual accuracy and the lack, thereof.
----> ALL.

[OregonShocker]

So, what goes Into the decision to fire a coach with time remaining on a contract? I would think performance is #1, scandal (broadly defined to include NCAA violations), player dissatisfaction (albeit perhaps given more weight than it should), booster dissatisfaction (not always clear to those outside the circle), fan base dissatisfaction (measured by attendance); what am I forgetting? By at least these measures, HCTB has not provided on performance expectations or fan attendance. Is that enough on its own, if the other factors are still "Ok"? I voted for firing in the poll, but I'm only part of the fan base and admittedly don't attend games anyway.

[J2210P]

Can we please take the discussion about fHCGS to that thread? I know it's easy to mix the two, and I have been guilty of that as well, but this thread is about the current coaching situation. Not the one we lived through four years ago.

Yes, I agree those details should be in that thread as well. Thank you. In here, I will never state a position about firing in the current state. I will set the past straight when comments bend dramatically based on what people think they know about the career and about what happened. Ungrounded character commentary plus marginalization of one of the most significant careers in the history of college baseball, is worthy of necessitating complete accuracy.

[BOBB]

👍 All involved parties are responsible and personally accountable for factual accuracy and the lack, thereof.
----> ALL.

Then why aren't Gene, et al, providing a substantiated counternarrative to the one established in the press? If that record is false, then no amount of calling Boatright a liar and bad guy will matter until the real story is out there. All I hear from Gene's supporters are, "if you knew the REAL story..." Why, in four years, has this real story not been made public? The bridge is clearly already burned, what advantage is withholding the truth? Gene's troops have no problem disparaging the administration. The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that the basic facts are correct and Gene's supporters only want to "nibble the edge" of how things were handled by the University after the decision was made. If there is more to the story than that, it is on Gene or his surrogates to provide the story, as the administration's has gone relatively unchallenged.

[Play Angry]

There are absolutely some off the field matters which Gene's base should wish remain in a dark, silent corner.