next year

[1972Shocker]

It is clear Coach Butler feels he needs to win right away

Gee, I wonder why that is?

[shockfan89_]

Gee, I wonder why that is?

The sentence went on to try and justify why Coach Butler is so heavily over recruiting right now. Of course everyone wants to win right away...

[ShockTalk]

The sentence went on to try and justify why Coach Butler is so heavily over recruiting right now. Of course everyone wants to win right away...

I think @1972Shocker:'s point may have been, had we hired Hooper or Standiford (both who I backed as a choice), most everyone, even the Gene huggers, would have been much more tolerant of the speed at which progress might have been made. Like the hire of Butler or not, I still believe ADES was going for a choice of D-I experience (as a head coach, assistant, and/or lead recruiter) over a fan favorite without it. Neither choice is a guarantee winner, but experience with a leading program in the region would generally be thought of as a more likely choice for success. Had Hooper or Standiford been hired, had the same rate of lack of success, this board would have a totally different tone to it.

If one is wondering about the long term contract, you are probably not going to attract the more experienced D-I candidates who are looking at having to follow a huge legend whose program had been declining for a number of years to the point of needing to be re-built without it.

[shockfan89_]

Oh in that case my bad. I thought he was just taking part of a sentence and saying DUH!

I agree with what you're saying. We will probably have to wait 3 or 4 more years before any realistic talk of a new coach. I wonder if either of the names mentioned would consider an assistant coaching position under HCTB?

[ShockTalk]

Oh in that case my bad. I thought he was just taking part of a sentence and saying DUH!

I agree with what you're saying. We will probably have to wait 3 or 4 more years before any realistic talk of a new coach. I wonder if either of the names mentioned would consider an assistant coaching position under HCTB?

I'd say, no way in h*ll (probably Butler's words as well). They might have taken one under Gene, but only as a "head coaching in waiting" with a timetable attached.

[Shocker85]

Coaches have always had to deal with this. It looks like they played the game of "let's over recruit to solve the problem" rather than played the guessing game. By my count we will have 31 Fr and So next year (before the draft). Does that mean we will only sign 4 players in next two recruiting classes? Obviously something will have to change.

It is clear Coach Butler feels he needs to win right away and can't take a chance of being short players by only recruiting what you think you will lose (guessing game 1972 mentioned above). I think if this is a one-time issue for a new coach we will all forget about it over time. Now if we bring in 15 new players every year, my opinion is that you aren't a good recruiter, you are just over recruiting and cutting the ones that you were wrong about.

89_, you don't get it, do you?

The over-recruiting / evaluation / cutting is how the big time programs do it in D1 baseball nowadays. The previous regime's method of only recruiting to available slots is the outlier situation.

D1 coaches are so hamstrung now by the scholarship rules and limitations that if they give long-term scholarships they can't stay competitive. Players come and go, either voluntarily or because they haven't gotten their FRACTIONAL scholarship renewed. Neither the programs nor the student-athletes have that much at stake other than the privilege of playing in a certain program of for a certain coaching staff.

All roads lead to the desire to get a sniff from affiliated baseball - look at the number of players who are drafted every year. How many have a legit shot at MLB? Not many.

[strongisbeautiful17]

I guess I just haven't adjusted to this over recruiting and turning over 1/3 to 1/4 of the team every year when it's not due to graduation or draft. I follow college sports instead of pro because I like the concept of recruiting and coaching players not offering scholarships to incoming players every year and pulling them from guys that a year or two ago you thought were good enough to recruit but now you see something shiny and new. Free agency drove me from watching pro sports and now college is becoming more and more like that.

 I agree with you Shockfan89.  I don't believe all schools or programs operate this way. This is what I miss most about Gene; he would recruit, coach, respect his players and build his program.  

[strongisbeautiful17]

89_, you don't get it, do you?

The over-recruiting / evaluation / cutting is how the big time programs do it in D1 baseball nowadays. The previous regime's method of only recruiting to available slots is the outlier situation.

D1 coaches are so hamstrung now by the scholarship rules and limitations that if they give long-term scholarships they can't stay competitive. Players come and go, either voluntarily or because they haven't gotten their FRACTIONAL scholarship renewed. Neither the programs nor the student-athletes have that much at stake other than the privilege of playing in a certain program of for a certain coaching staff.

All roads lead to the desire to get a sniff from affiliated baseball - look at the number of players who are drafted every year. How many have a legit shot at MLB? Not many.

My question for you is how many student/athletes does a team have to graduate or retain to be NCAA compliant each year? Or is there a minimum number?

[strongisbeautiful17]

Oh in that case my bad. I thought he was just taking part of a sentence and saying DUH!

I agree with what you're saying. We will probably have to wait 3 or 4 more years before any realistic talk of a new coach. I wonder if either of the names mentioned would consider an assistant coaching position under HCTB?

I believe they would have been interested in the assistant coaching position at the beginning, before these 2 years started, now, if I were to bet, I would say they would say, "NO WAY!"

[SB Shock]

 I agree with you Shockfan89.  I don't believe all schools or programs operate this way. This is what I miss most about Gene; he would recruit, coach, respect his players and build his program.  

True - then he went to Oklahoma and that all ended.

[strongisbeautiful17]

I kind of asked around out of curiosity, and I may be wrong, but I believe several of our boys are not returning. I have 8 that I know of right now, so that should dwindle down the list a little, then with the draft, we won't have to worry about 51 players. And as we all know Butler has a passion for recruiting so I'm sure he is going to add to the list that you have made up top before the summer is over.

[shoxlax]

I kind of asked around out of curiosity, and I may be wrong, but I believe several of our boys are not returning. I have 8 that I know of right now, so that should dwindle down the list a little, then with the draft, we won't have to worry about 51 players. And as we all know Butler has a passion for recruiting so I'm sure he is going to add to the list that you have made up top before the summer is over.

So mainly the ones that still have ties to Gene? Is that what you are saying?

[1972Shocker]

So mainly the ones that still have ties to Gene? Is that what you are saying?

He didn't say that nor did he say this was necessarily a bad thing. I assume considering how often we have been reminded that this is the worst Shocker team since the program was restarted in 1978 I am assuming that most probably think that is not a bad thing in terms of trying to rebuild the program.

[tru2thaduce]

He didn't say that nor did he say this was necessarily a bad thing. I assume considering how often we have been reminded that this is the worst Shocker team since the program was restarted in 1978 I am assuming that most probably think that is not a bad thing in terms of trying to rebuild the program.

honestly the 2009 team IMO,was the worst team I've seen.Just got lucky and won the Valley tourney that year.For what it's worth Mikel Mucha did tell me today he will be back next year.Ran into him after the championship game at the Eck.He did an interview for KSN that may be seen on tonight's news.

[shoxlax]

He didn't say that nor did he say this was necessarily a bad thing. I assume considering how often we have been reminded that this is the worst Shocker team since the program was restarted in 1978 I am assuming that most probably think that is not a bad thing in terms of trying to rebuild the program.

Just trying to put the pieces together with the tone of his other posts.

Getting the impression there is a bit of a grievance this person wants to air, which is fine. Just say so.