How many seasons does Butler get?

[1972Shocker]

I've been joking do we hire Gene back to attempt to be the Bill Synder of baseball.

I know your just joking, but WSU already did that once allowing Gene to come back after he accepted the OU job and publicly said he didn't think he could win at WSU anymore.

[ShockTalk]

Why is this year 1? The coach inherited an NCAA tournament team with a solid if unspectacular weekend rotation and one of the Top 3 collegiate hitters in the country.

I'm not on board with firing the guy, I'm just saying if this is year 1, then we should have let Gene coach those upperclass-laden guys last year.

I think @SB Shock: also had some good answers to this in post #15.

[asiseeit]

Its a low bar but I strongly believe we will see steady improvement starting Friday and
throughout the rest of this season, next season and beyond. TB has his priorities
straight and I'm confident that there will be improvement each week, each month and
each year. If this isn't clearly evident by the end of three more years THEN look for
replacement.

[pogo]

With the recent black-eye of the NCAA apparel investigation and the very unsatisfying start of the season, if this program has not fallen into complete obscurity, it is precariously wobbling on the edge.

We've gone from the highs of Derek Schermerhorn hitting our way against Arizona toward a '07 Super Regional and a walk-off grand slam against OK State in Stillwater to advance to the SR is '08 to this crap.

The facade of the Eck is riddled with stained stucco, funding for future improvements to the Eck to keep up with the Jones' is still a pipe dream, attendance is way down, we've lost 70 plus games from our overall W/L record, we continue to get worked over by once afterthought baseball programs KU and K-State, and we can't win the MVC against programs who play in front of 100 people and have gopher holes in the outfield.

As more and more Power 5 conferences pour money into their baseball programs, it's going to be harder and harder for us to maintain our tradition and success. I like Butler and feel he is more than capable of righting this ship, but damn, there's a lot of what ifs in the way and I'm not sure he can do it by himself. I saw him last year while he was watching some kids play summer ball out at the fields over at Andover Central High. Cool cat.

If this program slides further down the obscurity hole, we're just going to end up being one of those mid-major programs who will make noise every 5 to 10 years and be a cute story for 15 minutes.

I think black eye is a little harsh. I would think it more a blemish or a pimple on the ass type. As far as renovation goes we will have to see because there wasn't a whole lot of activity in GS last years towards that end. I have a feeling that there will be more flesh pressed than a Chicago political ward gathering to bring the renovation to fruition. (I used that last word as a tribute to the Bruce)

[1972Shocker]

It seems to me that part of our problem at this point is not only the underperformance of the team so far this year but perhaps the expectations of the fan base were maybe unrealistically high with way too much credence given to someone's opinion of the recruiting class.

The bottom line is that, if I counted correctly, we have 11 players on our 35-man roster who had any D-1 experience coming into this season. Perhaps a handful of those had made meaningful contributions in previous seasons. Sam Tewes was named a Freshman All-American by Collegiate Baseball but was not on the All-Conference Teams (did not even receive honorable mention) and Daniel Kihle was 2nd team All-MVC last year. Mikel Mucha played quite a bit as a sophomore but missed most of last year with a broken leg. Tanner Dearman and Tanner Kirk were role players last year hitting 0.232 and 0.243 respectively.

So 69% of this year's roster are new to D-1 baseball. Compare that to the men's basketball team where 62% of this year's team were newbies. However, the basketball team had the luxury of having the best guard trio in the country returning along with two other very solid starters rounding out its starting lineup. Look at the challenges 3G has had incorporating his newbies into the mix and he was only trying to build a reserve unit with these newbies. Todd Butler is trying to incorporate newbies into at least half of his every day lineup and pretty much the entire pitching staff outside of Sam Tewes. Perhaps it should not be that much of a surprise that the Shocks are off to a slow start.

Looking forward I am hope Coach Butler does not rely so much on Juco recruits and can build this program primarily with high school recruits who maybe don't come into the program with one foot already out the door and with perhaps more focus on team goals than on their individual professional aspirations.

[Cdizzle]

Butler himself built up the recruiting class, and has spent a lot of time talking about how we need to win now because all of these JuCo guys are going to get drafted in 3 months.

[1972Shocker]

Butler himself built up the recruiting class, and has spent a lot of time talking about how we need to win now because all of these JuCo guys are going to get drafted in 3 months.

And perhaps the 1 foot already out the door thinking of these Juco's that is part of the problem even if they are talented. Of course, Coach Butler recruited them so it is his job to get them to play to their potential. The fact of the matter is that the cupboard was pretty bare coming into this year which may have forced Butler's hand in going heavy on the Juco's on this 1st recruiting class. As I said I am hopeful that this will not be a normal mix of Juco vs High School recruits.

[1972Shocker]

Butler himself built up the recruiting class, and has spent a lot of time talking about how we need to win now because all of these JuCo guys are going to get drafted in 3 months.

And when was that last time you heard a coach not talk up a recruiting class Besides a number of these guys were in fact drafted so there was/is some basis to think they are going to get drafted again. However, I agree that Coach Butler made the decision to go this route and it is his job to get these guys to play to their potential even if they do already have 1 foot out the door.

It is also clear that the cupboard was pretty bare coming into this year and that may have forced Coach Butler's hand in relying so heavily on the Juco ranks. I hope that's the case as I would prefer to see Coach Butler build the team based primarily in high school recruits to the greatest extent possible.

Edit: Oops! Thought that last post had dropped so I made a repost. My bad.

[shoxlax]

SB has a point about juco kids meshing and finding the right lineups. If by the middle of April we are still getting beat down on a regular basis I might be concerned. I do expect improvement throughout the year and I don't think that is too much to ask.

[1972Shocker]

I do expect improvement throughout the year and I don't think that is too much to ask.

I think that is entirely reasonable and perhaps about the minimum you would expect from any program. If well coached you should be better at the end of the season than you are at the beginning of the season unless you get derailed by uncontrollables like injuries.

[pogo]

SB has a point about juco kids meshing and finding the right lineups. If by the middle of April we are still getting beat down on a regular basis I might be concerned. I do expect improvement throughout the year and I don't think that is too much to ask.

The weather has been pretty nice. Time to break out the nylon running shorts and the mesh shirt to watch a ballgame Shoxlax. :) Yeah you know what I'm remembering.

[Kung Wu]

The weather has been pretty nice. Time to break out the nylon running shorts and the mesh shirt to watch a ballgame Shoxlax. :) Yeah you know what I'm remembering.

Now there's a visual I didn't need. Don't tell me the shirt was cut off at the bottom of the ribcage too.

[1972Shocker]

Now there's a visual I didn't need. Don't tell me the shirt was cut off at the bottom of the ribcage too.

No it wasn't cut off at all.

[shox1989]

So far this year's team has 0 wins against the rpi top 200 and is just 3-3 against 201+ rpi teams. The ship needs to be righted soon. I don't think the fan base will put up with this kind of performance very long.

[AndShock]

Does anyone know the circumstances of Butler leaving McNeese? Did he realize he couldn't cut it as a head coach and took off or was it something else?

I wasn't really a fan of the hire because he doesn't pass the Wikipedia coaching record test (I made this up but it is usually a pretty good predictor of success). With that said, I will support him until there are reasons not to. This season doesn't matter in evaluating him, as far as I'm concerned. He needs to show some sort of improvement next year. If the team is not winning at a decent rate in Year 4 then there needs to be some serious evaluating.