How many seasons does Butler get?

[DUShock]

Very well stated @SB Shock:

[JJClamdip]

Let's also remember this was ADES first "big" hire. Could prove telling for future hires; success or failure.

The strong recommendation of Kemnitz weighted heavily on this hire, this was Kemnitz hire with the approval of Sexton, he needs to take a share of the blame equally.

[SPEShockAlum]

The strong recommendation of Kemnitz weighted heavily on this hire, this was Kemnitz hire with the approval of Sexton, he needs to take a share of the blame equally.

But at the end of the day, it falls on Sexton's shoulders. Kemnitz is the subordinate in this situation.

[Shoxtastic]

But at the end of the day, it falls on Sexton's shoulders. Kemnitz is the subordinate in this situation.

Good point here SPES as far as the future goes.

As far as coaching tenures go, I'm not a big 'set time' person. I'm much more an arrow person. If the arrow on the eye test isn't pointing up by the end of next season, you at least have to explore why that arrow is not pointing up and what its going to take to get it there. I guess I am a little more crude than the majority of the board. If it smells worse at the end of next year than it does now, you better take the time to figure out why or stand the potential to have purple and blue shirted seats for the in-state games as opposed to black and yellow and slide into complete irrelevance.

The arrow is down at this point. But there is a lot of season left to play, and I can't imagine that arrow won't at least be pointing sideways by the end. Still think this team needs time to gel and figure it out and that once they do these weeks will be good reminders of where it started and what not to slip back to. Time will tell though. I don't see how you can't be concerned at this point.

[SHOCKvalue]

Butler rep is of a great recruiter, and mediocre head coach. His previous result at the helm of another program, and this year's recruiting class, bear those out pretty well respectively. I'm giving him as lot of rope personally because he came into a mess, and seems like a decent human being, but he's taking the slack up in that rope in large chunks.

[ShockerFever]

Polls came out today. Anybody know where we ended up?

[_kai_]

This is year 1 in my eyes. At this point I have no time table on when I'll even think the question is legit.

Keys to Butler's success in my eyes, without W/L playing in:

1) Culture change. A culture of hard work and determination. My personal opinion was the team under Gene had gone from lackadaisical at best to just plain lazy.

2) Fundamental baseball. Stop having throwing errors. Stop mental mistakes on bunt defense.

3) Run generation. (Which would go with the whole W/L thing. Runs = wins)

4) Maybe even call it 3.a) but back to entertaining baseball. The product on the field has to be entertaining to watch, and it hasn't been fun for a few years.

I think Coach Butler knows how to recruit, we need to see him develop all this young talent we have, and hope to get. Does his current staff do that? We'll see in the next couple years. I feel one of Gregg Marshall's biggest positive is his ability to form a great staff of assistants. We'll see with Butler.

One small edit: I'd like to say that I'm a big fan of Coach Butler. I think he brings a spark to the team and program as a whole, and I feel confident like I do with Gregg that he represents the program in a positive light. I think, and also hope, that we come back in a year or 2 to this post and laugh at it because we're back to Shocker winning ways and in the national spotlight being ranked.

[Cdizzle]

Why is this year 1? The coach inherited an NCAA tournament team with a solid if unspectacular weekend rotation and one of the Top 3 collegiate hitters in the country.

I'm not on board with firing the guy, I'm just saying if this is year 1, then we should have let Gene coach those upperclass-laden guys last year.

[_kai_]

Why is this year 1? The coach inherited an NCAA tournament team with a solid if unspectacular weekend rotation and one of the Top 3 collegiate hitters in the country.

I'm not on board with firing the guy, I'm just saying if this is year 1, then we should have let Gene coach those upperclass-laden guys last year.

Because to me, a coach starts with his recruiting class. I feel it is unfair to judge him before he even has his guys on the team.

[1972Shocker]

This is year 1 in my eyes.

I generally agree with that. That 1st year is kind of a feeling out process for a Coach and any returning players as the culture transitions from the old to the new. At a minimum he will probably get 2 more years after this year and perhaps 3.

Clearly the jury is out on how successful Coach Butler will be. Thank goodness we did not bail on Gregg Marshall 8 games into his 2nd season when he was 14-25 as the WSU head man.

I think what I need to see from Coach Butler's teams is some noticeable progression in the quality of play during the season and then from season-to-season. Of course, that needs to be reflected in wins at some point. I'm willing to give the man a couple of more years after this year to see if that happens.

Getting swept by Long Beach may not be the best barometer to use at this point. We have played LBS 18 times since 2008 and are 3-15 in those games.

However, I will be disappointed if we don't have some significant success in the upcoming 10 game homestand.

[Cdizzle]

Because to me, a coach starts with his recruiting class. I feel it is unfair to judge him before he even has his guys on the team.

Fair enough. I'll agree to disagree in cases where the inherited team is above average to good, but to each their own. Like I said, I'm not lighting up the torches, but when you get rid of a guy like Stephenson, I'm not going to be super patient.

[_kai_]

Fair enough. I'll agree to disagree in cases where the inherited team is above average to good, but to each their own. Like I said, I'm not lighting up the torches, but when you get rid of a guy like Stephenson, I'm not going to be super patient.

I think on a program level, rather than a season level, the new coach is hurt by having a year where he can't recruit. He's the talent evaluation guy now, and even if he had a stellar group of starters he inherited, that doesn't mean his group of freshman he inherited as well are going to be stellar starters in following years. And there is the possibility the guys he gets to inherit are great talent, but not great fit for his culture or style.

I'm not saying all first years of a coach shouldn't be counted, but in this case, I think it's slightly unfair to base Butler's longevity with the program after 2 weeks of baseball in his 2nd season, and 2 weeks of baseball with his only recruiting class at the program.

That's why to me, this is year 1 of evaluating Butler as the captain of the ship, and in control of the direction of the ship's journey.

[1972Shocker]

Fair enough. I'll agree to disagree in cases where the inherited team is above average to good, but to each their own. Like I said, I'm not lighting up the torches, but when you get rid of a guy like Stephenson, I'm not going to be super patient.

Regardless of how one views that 1st year it is hard for me to believe that Coach Butler will not get at least two more years beyond this year barring a total disaster. And I guess that is my bottom line response to the original question.

I assume the great majority of Shocker fans are hoping that Coach Butler succeeds although I am sure there are pockets of Gene loyalists who are hoping he does not succeed. But none of that will have much bearing on whether or not he is successful.

[KC Shox]

With the recent black-eye of the NCAA apparel investigation and the very unsatisfying start of the season, if this program has not fallen into complete obscurity, it is precariously wobbling on the edge.

We've gone from the highs of Derek Schermerhorn hitting our way against Arizona toward a '07 Super Regional and a walk-off grand slam against OK State in Stillwater to advance to the SR is '08 to this crap.

The facade of the Eck is riddled with stained stucco, funding for future improvements to the Eck to keep up with the Jones' is still a pipe dream, attendance is way down, we've lost 70 plus games from our overall W/L record, we continue to get worked over by once afterthought baseball programs KU and K-State, and we can't win the MVC against programs who play in front of 100 people and have gopher holes in the outfield.

As more and more Power 5 conferences pour money into their baseball programs, it's going to be harder and harder for us to maintain our tradition and success. I like Butler and feel he is more than capable of righting this ship, but damn, there's a lot of what ifs in the way and I'm not sure he can do it by himself. I saw him last year while he was watching some kids play summer ball out at the fields over at Andover Central High. Cool cat.

If this program slides further down the obscurity hole, we're just going to end up being one of those mid-major programs who will make noise every 5 to 10 years and be a cute story for 15 minutes.

[bleed yellow]

I think if this year does indeed end up in disaster and next year is disappointing, WSU has no choice but to look for different baseball leadership. Being relevant may in fact be tougher these days due to the P5 schools dumping more money into baseball, but WSU fired Gene for a reason and that firing was about as ugly as a firing gets. If Sexton believes WSU is capable of being better than Gene's last year, then Butler's will last chance will be next year.