National Head Coach Search Options

[SB Shock]

Know quantity? For what?

He rebuilt New Mexico State that had a losing record (23-31), ranked 267 in the RPI to a:

2018: 2nd WAC, 40-22, 85 RPI
2019: 1st WAC, 38-17, 113 RPI

Then went to Power 5 conference and took a program over where finishing 0.500 is considered success.

In 2019, Washington State was 11-42, with 225 RPI before Green took over.

2022: 27-26, RPI 76 (71st ISR)
2023: 28-23, RPI 92 (72nd ISR)

In 2020, his recruiting class was ranked 29th in the nation
In 2021, his recruiting class was ranked 40th in the nation and had the No. 1 Junior College class.

These are results for programs who have little success in their conferences.

Coach Green has acknowledged that the expectations are much higher at WSU, and that is why he wanted to come here because he doesn't see a ceiling.

[BostonWu]

I'll bring you up to speed. They worked together at Kentucky for a number of years. To know... to be familiar with. Google can be your friend. And only a fool would be in a position of AD and not have a short list for EVERY coaching position to cover any contingency. ADKS seems not to be a fool.

Yeahhhhh...everyone knows they're pals. Not the kind of know quantity that gets me excited.

[BostonWu]

He rebuilt New Mexico State that had a losing record (23-31), ranked 267 in the RPI to a:

2018: 2nd WAC, 40-22, 85 RPI
2019: 1st WAC, 38-17, 113 RPI

Then went to Power 5 conference and took a program over where finishing 0.500 is considered success.

In 2019, Washington State was 11-42, with 225 RPI before Green took over.

2022: 27-26, RPI 76 (71st ISR)
2023: 28-23, RPI 92 (72nd ISR)

In 2020, his recruiting class was ranked 29th in the nation
In 2021, his recruiting class was ranked 40th in the nation and had the No. 1 Junior College class.

These are results for programs who have little success in their conferences.

Coach Green has acknowledged that the expectations are much higher at WSU, and that is why he wanted to come here because he doesn't see a ceiling.

So he elevated to mediocre results at places that are tough to win. Didn't Hibbs do that and then some?

IIRC Todd Butler had great recruiting classes.

[SB Shock]

So he elevated to mediocre results at places that are tough to win. Didn't Hibbs do that and then some?

No, Hibbs didn’t do anything. The players were wedges and he underperformed with the talent that Wedge provided.

IIRC Todd Butler had great recruiting classes.

first step is recruiting, then the second step is development of that talent and build a fundamental sound team. Butler was not able to get the second step done. But neither was Hibbs able to do that either, this team took a step back on fundamentals.

[ShockTalk]

No, Hibbs didn’t do anything. The players were wedges and he underperformed with the talent that Wedge provided.



first step is recruiting, then the second step is development of that talent and build a fundamental sound team. Butler was not able to get the second step done. But neither was Hibbs able to do that either, this team took a step back on fundamentals.

Honest question: How do we know that?

First, different schedule and even teams within the league had different players.

Last year's team was 15 games below .500. This year's team was 5 games above .500.

Last year's team scored 5.77 runs per game. This year's team scored 7.18 runs per game.

Last year's team had an ERA of 5.97. This year's team had an ERA of 4.41.

I'm sure there is more to it than this, but even players who were here for both years could have different reasons (other than coaching) for being better one year than the other. One could argue that Wedge could not have coached as well this year.

Lastly, Wedge (and his troubles) may not have even had a team that would have played for him and fundamentals could have taken a back seat to other issues.

I think both coaches may have had their shortcomings, but who's to say which one's did the most, good or bad.

[shoxlax]

Honest question: How do we know that?

First, different schedule and even teams within the league had different players.

Last year's team was 15 games below .500. This year's team was 5 games above .500.

Last year's team scored 5.77 runs per game. This year's team scored 7.18 runs per game.

Last year's team had an ERA of 5.97. This year's team had an ERA of 4.41.

I'm sure there is more to it than this, but even players who were here for both years could have different reasons (other than coaching) for being better one year than the other. One could argue that Wedge could not have coached as well this year.

Lastly, Wedge (and his troubles) may not have even had a team that would have played for him and fundamentals could have taken a back seat to other issues.

I think both coaches may have had their shortcomings, but who's to say which one's did the most, good or bad.

Hibbs and staff also stopped a mass exodus from happening at the semester which easily could have happened.

[BostonWu]

No, Hibbs didn’t do anything. The players were wedges and he underperformed with the talent that Wedge provided.

I'm talking about his full resume and time at Charlotte. Tough to say Green has a better overall track record. Basically all I've heard was he coached at terrible places with zero expectations and made them less shitty. Did he leave the places better than when he showed up? Sure but to go from zero to 3 on 10 point scale is pretty low bar.

[Kung Wu]

I'm talking about his full resume and time at Charlotte. Tough to say Green has a better overall track record. Basically all I've heard was he coached at terrible places with zero expectations and made them less shitty. Did he leave the places better than when he showed up? Sure but to go from zero to 3 on 10 point scale is pretty low bar.

NMSU was from 0 to 7. He took them from a baseball afterthought to an NCAA tournament -- which hasn't even happened here in over a decade. The concern is whether he has the right stuff to take a program from a 6 to a 10. Hibbs cruised at 7 for awhile until peaking at an 8 for about a three or four year period and then settled in back at level 7 for the remainder of his career.

Level 7 making the NCAA tournament occasionally
Level 8 making the NCAA tournament frequently
Level 9 making a deep NCAA run occasionally
Level 10 making deep NCAA runs frequently

[shockerofandover0943]

NMSU was from 0 to 7. He took them from a baseball afterthought to an NCAA tournament -- which hasn't even happened here in over a decade. The concern is whether he has the right stuff to take a program from a 6 to a 10. Hibbs cruised at 7 for awhile until peaking at an 8 for about a three or four year period and then settled in back at level 7 for the remainder of his career.

Level 7 making the NCAA tournament occasionally
Level 8 making the NCAA tournament frequently
Level 9 making a deep NCAA run occasionally
Level 10 making deep NCAA runs frequently

The move to the C-USA for Charlotte seemed to be a challenge. If you include this year, teams led by Hibbs have missed the NCAA Tournament in 9 straight seasons. It’d be hard to even call it a 7 at this point.

[Shock Top]

NMSU was from 0 to 7. He took them from a baseball afterthought to an NCAA tournament -- which hasn't even happened here in over a decade. The concern is whether he has the right stuff to take a program from a 6 to a 10. Hibbs cruised at 7 for awhile until peaking at an 8 for about a three or four year period and then settled in back at level 7 for the remainder of his career.

Level 7 making the NCAA tournament occasionally
Level 8 making the NCAA tournament frequently
Level 9 making a deep NCAA run occasionally
Level 10 making deep NCAA runs frequently

Level 9 needs to be the standard, Level 10 the goal, Level 8 the floor

[Kung Wu]

The move to the C-USA for Charlotte seemed to be a challenge. If you include this year, teams led by Hibbs have missed the NCAA Tournament in 9 straight seasons. It’d be hard to even call it a 7 at this point.

Agreed, Hibbs had a 6 this year. But there is no doubt he would get us to a 7, and then we would stall out there.

[shoxlax]

As long as we are creating fictitious evaluations:

10 is CWS or Super 75% of the time
9 is tournament almost every year (80-90% of time) with Super or CWS at least once every three years
8 is making tournament almost every year and winning some games
7 is making tournament more often than not
6 is being competitive with Top 100 RPI and/or in contention to win your conference regularly

Gene was an 8-10 the majority of the time but was slipping below a 7 when he was let go. Not sure whether he would’ve got back to a 7-8, but that is an argument for another day.

ORU and DBU are both 8’s and knocking on the door of becoming 9’s

We were a solid 6 this year, way higher than under either Butler or Wedge. However, getting over the hump to a 7 was not a given next year and depending on who you believe, we still may have had to rebuild. My concern with making the change was what happens to our financial support, however, we will see what happens over the next few weeks.

[BostonWu]

NMSU was from 0 to 7. He took them from a baseball afterthought to an NCAA tournament -- which hasn't even happened here in over a decade. The concern is whether he has the right stuff to take a program from a 6 to a 10. Hibbs cruised at 7 for awhile until peaking at an 8 for about a three or four year period and then settled in back at level 7 for the remainder of his career.

Level 7 making the NCAA tournament occasionally
Level 8 making the NCAA tournament frequently
Level 9 making a deep NCAA run occasionally
Level 10 making deep NCAA runs frequently

By those standards Green never achieved 7 and was well below that at his last stop.

[Kung Wu]

By those standards Green never achieved 7 and was well below that at his last stop.

True. Was only there for 3 years effectively. Probably a more difficult rebuild situation than NMSU, but who knows?

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Yeahhhhh...everyone knows they're pals. Not the kind of know quantity that gets me excited.

Do we really know that? I mean, we know they worked together at Kentucky. That's about it. I keep hearing this narrative that they are somehow best buddies since they were kids and they hang out every weekend. Do we know they are as close as has been assumed? I am honestly asking. Maybe someone does know that. I am just curious. There is a difference between being former colleagues and being BFF's.