Help me out - What caused the fall of Wichita State baseball?

[ShockerFever]

ah, so they exacerbated the fall. gotcha. it is almost like i said that once before.

Reading comprehension is hard.

[UCONN_Husky]

Don't know, but it's gonna be tough to get back to the top in the AAC. Baseball may be this conference's best sport (in terms of quality, top to bottom).

[Shocker85]

I agree with the notion of eroding expectations. I've been ardently following the program for over 35 seasons. My hope is that the team be competitive, garner at- large consideration and the product on the field not embarrass the tradition of Shocker Baseball. I'm 0 for 3.

[WuDrWu]

I totally agree with Shocker85. I pressed my face against the chain link fence behind home plate as a grade schooler in the late 70s. Watched hundreds upon hundreds of games while in and out of college in the 80s, as a young adult in the 90s and so on, and I still support the program today, and yes, we're 0-3 now.

[SB Shock]

Don't know, but it's gonna be tough to get back to the top in the AAC. Baseball may be this conference's best sport (in terms of quality, top to bottom).

At this point I don't think WSU fans have any expectation of actually winning the AAC anytime soon, we would like to at least finish where WSU would get at-large bid.

[shockfan89_]

At the very least not tied for 8th place with a team loaded with JRs and SRs and future draft picks. That was just embarrassing. Maybe the worst part of the Butler era? Well, next to 26-33 record in 2015. And the 21-37 record in 2016. And the 28-30 record in 2017. And the 6th place MVC finish in 2016. And the 5th place MVC finish in 2017 in the 16th ranked conference.

[Kung Wu]

And the beer gestapo.

[lostshocker]

Reading comprehension is hard.

at least you can admit one of your shortcomings.

[ABC]

I just don't buy the landscape change. Look at college basketball. I think GS just ran out of gas.

[WuDrWu]

There's very little doubt about the latter. However, you just can't overlook the uncontrollable impact of the geographically located other programs that we couldn't prevent from joining the fight. Yes, Gene's "running out of gas" made the fall worse, and perhaps accelerated it, but just look at the timing and the talent. My goodness, the talent we had back in those years. SOME of those kids starting having choices, and having those choices, some chose schools other than WSU.

[SHOCKvalue]

I’m just not sure I agree, Doc.

Starting basically at the I-35 line and going west there’s still today a no man’s land of D1 baseball programs until you’re within a couple of hundred miles of the west coast. Closer to here, OU, OSU, Arkansas, and Nebraska (sorta) have as much pride and support of their programs as they’ve always had, while KU, K-State, and MU have an occasional decent year but still suck like they always have.

I’m not arguing that more P5’s aren’t spending more resources today, just that I think it’s more geographically concentrated to B10 and ACC traditional footprints. The SEC and B12 are relatively unchanged in historic baseball strength.

Our plight is almost entirely related to a HOF coach who couldn’t see his sunset even after the sun went down and it was pitch black skies, coupled with a piss poor HC hire by an AD at the time who couldn’t count that part of his employ as a strong suit. My $.02.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I think don't think basketball is a fair comparison, just like football isn't a fair comparison (unless I'm missing your point). Baseball used to be a sport practically no school invested in--besides WSU and a few other programs. Basketball has for a long time been one of the two top college sports. Only relatively recently have many P5 schools been pouring money into baseball.

But to be fair to your point, it's not like Cal State Fullerton fell off the face of the earth.

[ShockerFever]

at least you can admit one of your shortcomings.

Listen to your screenname.

[SB Shock]

I disagree with the "landscape of college baseball" has changed. If you look at the data - WSU expenditure is in the top 20% of teams in college baseball, their actual performance is well below performance you would expect for their level of investment (WSU should be in the 35-40 range).

[Kung Wu]

I am not bagging on fHCGS anymore. Nobody is perfect, even fHCGS. It was time for him to retire when he was let go, but I am ready to remember him for the absolutely amazing accomplishments at WSU that will continue to be discussed well past his and probably my own lifetime. He is not a part of the current problem that this program has at this moment, so time to move on.

[Veritas]

It is myopic ignorance at the very least for anyone to blame fHCGS.
Even his worst single year exceeds what the Butled has ever accomplished.

[ABC]

It is myopic ignorance at the very least for anyone to blame fHCGS.
Even his worst single year exceeds what the Butled has ever accomplished.

Are you serious Clark? Gene had nothing to do with it? Right.

Back to the "landscape" discussion; I hear what DrWu is saying but that doesn't explain going from CWS to not sniffing at-large bids. There is a lot of space between those extremes.

[vbird53]

Despite the "fall", aren't expectations still to challenge for conference titles and NCAA Tournament success? If not, hang it up. These should be expectations for every program the school sponsors, and I believe they are. Each of the other programs have achieved some level of success towards those expectations in the last decade, except baseball. At this point, it starts at the top if those expectations cannot be met.

[OregonShocker]

fHCGS had arrogance; when it benefitted us it was great. But when it hurt, it hurt deep. The true downturn revolves around this. All the other factors, like "landscape shifts", recruiting challenges, relating to younger players, expansion of teams, etc. all are/were potentially overcomeable challenges, but his ego...hurt the cause. By the time he realized it, it was too late to stop the downward spiral. (Ticking off the AD doesn't usually turn out well for the coach, regardless of past successes.)
This obviously wasn't the only factor, but it was a major factor.
As stated above, the spiral was continued by incompetence in the AD department in recognizing and fixing problems, which allowed the continued dive.
However, I have hope for a return to glory; I have seen OSU rise from nothing (their facilities are no where near ours, let alone even Oregon University, and they accomplished it.) But, to OSU's credit, their coach recognized when it was time for a change and left the program in a great position.

[Veritas]

Are you serious Clark? Gene had nothing to do with it? Right.

Back to the "landscape" discussion; I hear what DrWu is saying but that doesn't explain going from CWS to not sniffing at-large bids. There is a lot of space between those extremes.

Explain how Gene CAUSED the FALL of WSU baseball?

[SB Shock]

Explain how Gene CAUSED the FALL of WSU baseball?

Because he spent more time chasing skirts instead of getting out on the recruiting trail.

[ABC]

Ultimately it is on the head man. He got less aggressive recruiting, rarely leaving the state. I think he spent a lot of energy on the stadium and not on the program. And of course there were the personal issues. You don't think the stalking charges and settlement impacted recruitment and fundraising? The exit for Oklahoma, how he handled the Molina incident, and of course just the on field performance. Jim Schaus nor Eric Sexton did not have anything do with any of those things above. It is my understanding that Schaus did not want GS back after the OU thing, but he was out of town and then-President Don Beggs welcomed him back. I think GS made the program about himself and was frankly selfish how he handled the end/exit.

EDIT: But of course he deserves nearly all of the credit for the rise and success of the program.