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Help me out - What caused the fall of Wichita State baseball?

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  • Help me out - What caused the fall of Wichita State baseball?

    I would like to know.

  • #2
    Originally posted by FadedCrown View Post
    I would like to know.
    I think there are several things.

    1. Molina/Christenson and how WSU handled it hurt WSU. WSU at the time didn't have an AD, and the whole event ended up getting defined in the national media by Evansville and dirtbag, DUI driving coach.

    2. HCGS refused to bring in younger assistants who were hungry. WSU started depending on reputation than recruiting hard work.

    3. MLB draft hit hard when they did have some good recruits, and WSU didn't have a fall-back plan (see No. 2) which set back WSU. The overall level of recruiting also was declining also (see No. 2).

    4. HCGS moral failings. Affairs, divorce, sexual harassment lawsuits, Civil settlements. All were significant distractions for the coach. Not a good look when you blow out your knee skiing in Colorado with your personal massage specialist and the story is publicized in the Eagle.

    Comment


    • DUShock
      DUShock commented
      Editing a comment
      I think SB's assessment is spot on.

  • #3
    EDIT: Looks like SB beat me by seconds.

    Anthony Molina event was the punch that left the program dazed and confused.

    Women, OU, and public statements that couldn’t be taken back were the combo TKO.

    Assist provided by incompetent AD.
    There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
    - Ernest Hemingway

    Comment


    • ShockTalk
      ShockTalk commented
      Editing a comment
      When Gene wanted to come back to WSU, a new contract with more payout, but much more incentive-based could have helped.

  • #4
    Originally posted by SB Shock View Post

    I think there are several things.

    1. Molina/Christenson and how WSU handled it hurt WSU. WSU at the time didn't have an AD, and the whole event ended up getting defined in the national media by Evansville and dirtbag, DUI driving coach.

    2. HCGS refused to bring in younger assistants who were hungry. WSU started depending on reputation than recruiting hard work.

    3. MLB draft hit hard when they did have some good recruits, and WSU didn't have a fall-back plan (see No. 2) which set back WSU. The overall level of recruiting also was declining also (see No. 2).

    4. HCGS moral failings. Affairs, divorce, sexual harassment lawsuits, Civil settlements. All were significant distractions for the coach. Not a good look when you blow out your knee skiing in Colorado with your personal massage specialist and the story is publicized in the Eagle.
    You forgot Eric Sexton and Darren Boatright's contributions as well.
    Deuces Valley.
    ... No really, deuces.
    ________________
    "Enjoy the ride."

    - a smart man

    Comment


    • Shocker85
      Shocker85 commented
      Editing a comment
      Look at the front of the pressbox for the year of the last CWS appearance. The downfall was long before Sexton, Boatright and Butler.

    • ShockerFever
      ShockerFever commented
      Editing a comment
      WSU was 2 wins away and 1 win away from CWS appearances in 2007 and 2008. Not to mention clearly relevant in the national polls through those years.

      It was a landscape change that coaches and administration never adapted to. The level we are at now is definitively worse by a LANDSLIDE thanks to those two individuals.

  • #5
    All good observations. I think the changing landscape of college baseball over the last couple of decades has been a factor as well. This will also make returning to the ranks of perrenial powerhouse more of a challenge as well.

    Comment


    • ShockTalk
      ShockTalk commented
      Editing a comment
      One thing that always baffled me during that changing landscape, compared to other quality programs, is that our pitching continued to be top shelf and deep while our hitting generally got worse. I would think that quality hitters would want to go to programs that consistently had quality pitching.

    • Shocker85
      Shocker85 commented
      Editing a comment
      And i think it is deeper than just baseball. P5 football schools can now dominate any sport they choose because of all the TV money and booster cash that pours into those athletics departments. Look at Nebraska, Oregon, Oregon State, Tennessee, and many others who have risen in the baseball universe on the coastal of football.

    • WuDrWu
      WuDrWu commented
      Editing a comment
      We've discussed this, probably to the point of dead horse beatdown, over the years and I will always come back to this one point.

      The decade from 88-98 when WSU was the ELITE of elite, surpassed by few if any other than LSU, college baseball, ESPECIALLY in this area of the country was dominated by WSU and to a slightly lesser extent, Oklahoma State. If you were a high school baseball talent, and you lived in Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, and even parts of Arkansas, Texas, Utah, Illinois, the Dakotas....at least those 10 states (and some of Texas) WSU got exactly who they wanted, because all those kids wanted the best. We got the best of the best. Then Nebraska decided to put 10 million into a stadium and another 5+ into a program. KU and KSU got serious about baseball. Missouri and Oklahoma did as well.....and so on and so on. Well that pie started to get divided a bunch more ways, in OUR neck of the woods. Very little WSU could do to minimize that impact.

      Certainly the BC UE nightmare, Gene's OU flip flop, a total hands off approach from the administration on a program that was on the outside clean and healthy but pull back the dated astroturf and there was an ugly foundation......and the aging of a talented coaching staff ALL contributed to the downfall. BUT the addition of competitive programs in our area and the influx of million upon millions of dollars that WSU is forced to compete against is the pothole that WSU was never ever going to avoid. It was and always will be impossible.

  • #6
    Help me out - What caused the fall of Wichita State baseball?

    Incompetence.


    T


    ...

    Comment


    • #7
      Originally posted by ShockerFever View Post

      You forgot Eric Sexton and Darren Boatright's contributions as well.
      reading comprehension is difficult. he didnt forget them. their contributions didnt cause the downfall they perpetuated them.

      Comment


      • #8
        Originally posted by lostshocker View Post

        reading comprehension is difficult. he didnt forget them. their contributions didnt cause the downfall they perpetuated them.
        The fall now is worse than anything Gene had going, ya dipstick.
        Deuces Valley.
        ... No really, deuces.
        ________________
        "Enjoy the ride."

        - a smart man

        Comment


        • Shocker85
          Shocker85 commented
          Editing a comment
          Must you resort to name calling?

        • ShockerFever
          ShockerFever commented
          Editing a comment
          When someone comes at me with reading comprehension “smack”, you betcha.

      • #9
        again, reading comprehension is your friend on a message board. pull your head out of your ass and try to understand what is being discussed. i know it is difficult for you because you want to complain about sexton and boatright but they only allowed it to continue and get worse. they didnt start it. we all can see where we are at now. everyone pretty much knows it isnt getting any better until a change (or changes are) is made.

        and just for you, sexton and boatright didnt start it, they perpetuated and exacerbated the fall.

        Comment


        • #10
          Originally posted by lostshocker View Post
          again, reading comprehension is your friend on a message board. pull your head out of your ass and try to understand what is being discussed. i know it is difficult for you because you want to complain about sexton and boatright but they only allowed it to continue and get worse. they didnt start it. we all can see where we are at now. everyone pretty much knows it isnt getting any better until a change (or changes are) is made.

          and just for you, sexton and boatright didnt start it, they perpetuated and exacerbated the fall.
          I think the main point that most of us are saying is that there was a clear starting point to the downfall, but that by itself was far from a killer. At the beginning, the changing collegiate baseball landscape had an impact, but that and the beanball incident didn't cause what could be called a "fall". There was no "one" thing. It was a long series of continued mistakes (to be kind) that kept digging the program into a deeper pit that would make it harder to ever get out. Questionable athletic department decisions (there were many it could be argued) are a part of that.

          Comment


          • #11
            Originally posted by FadedCrown View Post
            I would like to know.
            What exactly are you trolling for?
            Basketball Season Tix since '77-78 . . . . . . Baseball Season Tix since '88

            Comment


            • #12
              Originally posted by SHOCKvalue View Post
              EDIT: Looks like SB beat me by seconds.

              Anthony Molina event was the punch that left the program dazed and confused.

              Women, OU, and public statements that couldn’t be taken back were the combo TKO.

              Assist provided by incompetent AD.
              How did I forget the OU debacle? That was important step. All schools had to do when recruiting against WSU was play Gene own words.

              Had Gene stayed at OU it might have been a different story for both programs. I think Gene would have done relative well where the OU name did the recruiting and WSU probably would have been able to hire a quality coach as the program was held in more esteem at the time
              Last edited by SB Shock; 4 weeks ago.

              Comment


              • #13
                Originally posted by Shocker85 View Post

                What exactly are you trolling for?
                I think FC has stated before that he’s pretty young, so even our SR’s in 2007 and 2008 are ancient history to him.
                There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
                - Ernest Hemingway

                Comment


                • FadedCrown
                  FadedCrown commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yeah, I was very young in 2008.

              • #14
                Originally posted by lostshocker View Post
                again, reading comprehension is your friend on a message board. pull your head out of your ass and try to understand what is being discussed. i know it is difficult for you because you want to complain about sexton and boatright but they only allowed it to continue and get worse. they didnt start it. we all can see where we are at now. everyone pretty much knows it isnt getting any better until a change (or changes are) is made.

                and just for you, sexton and boatright didnt start it, they perpetuated and exacerbated the fall.
                Once again for the chromosome-challenged..

                Nobody was complaining about the baseball program when were racking up super regionals as late as 2007 and 2008. The landscape changed when more programs were dumping money into college baseball. We clearly didn’t adapt both from a coaching end and an administrative end. When Sexton pooped on a legend the way he did, he rushed into a hire and then EXTENDED the contract of that hire that sent us into the abyss. Our name now carries little to no weight in the college baseball world, unlike it did 5-10 years ago. This fall is MUCH sharper and more impactful than anything that happened under the former regime. That’s not debatable. So while you can say the fall happened while this team was still relevant in the rankings, playing into the post season, I’ll concentrate my “fall” definition on the individuals responsible for turning this program into the irrelevant, dormant volcano it is now.
                Deuces Valley.
                ... No really, deuces.
                ________________
                "Enjoy the ride."

                - a smart man

                Comment


                • SB Shock
                  SB Shock commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Actually there has not been any contract extension (yet). His original contract was for 7 years starting June 16, 2013.

                  If Butler left before June 20, 2016 he would had to pay WSU 300,00.

                • ShockerFever
                  ShockerFever commented
                  Editing a comment
                  You’re right. It seems like an extension because it was so embarrassingly long to begin with.

                • SB Shock
                  SB Shock commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I think it safe to say he had a fair shot. Now it is time for somebody else.

              • #15
                Originally posted by ShockerFever View Post

                Once again for the chromosome-challenged..

                Nobody was complaining about the baseball program when were racking up super regionals as late as 2007 and 2008. The landscape changed when more programs were dumping money into college baseball. We clearly didn’t adapt both from a coaching end and an administrative end. When Sexton pooped on a legend the way he did, he rushed into a hire and then EXTENDED the contract of that hire that sent us into the abyss. Our name now carries little to no weight in the college baseball world, unlike it did 5-10 years ago. This fall is MUCH sharper and more impactful than anything that happened under the former regime. That’s not debatable. So while you can say the fall happened while this team was still relevant in the rankings, playing into the post season, I’ll concentrate my “fall” definition on the individuals responsible for turning this program into the irrelevant, dormant volcano it is now.
                ah, so they exacerbated the fall. gotcha. it is almost like i said that once before.

                Comment

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