*Official* Bruce Weber to K-State

[Rixtoy1]

Wow. And now Weber has hired Chris Lowery as assistant coach.
Do you think any D1 school has ever filled out their coaching vacancies with two "just fired" coaches before?

[Snapshot9]

Lowery was a hell of a recruiter. I believe he was very involved in the successes of the previous staffs and did a very good job recruiting as a head coach. He just wasn't a good coach and couldn't develop talent

This is almost an oxymoron don't you think Sub?. How can a guy that is so good at spotting talented basketball players not know how to develop them? I think they are going to have a hard time recruiting really good players in the future.

[SubGod22]

This is almost an oxymoron don't you think Sub?. How can a guy that is so good at spotting talented basketball players not know how to develop them? I think they are going to have a hard time recruiting really good players in the future.

It's not uncommon. Just because you can spot talent, doesn't mean you can effectively coach or develop it.

[Rixtoy1]

The only person they now need to complete the Trifecta is Slicky boy Ricky Nuheisel - yeah, I know he is a football coach, but in his world I am sure he could add value to the basketball program - if only being the custodian of the office March Madness brackets.

[shockkansas]

Watching the sky fall on Manhattan the past couple of weeks has certainly been interesting. KSU fans seem like they have no idea how bad this could actually get for their favorite school. I've heard a couple old timers say this could not have happened at a worse time because Bill Snyder will probably be retiring soon also. By this they mean, if KSU football and basketball sputter, can they recover? I think them nearly losing their football team in the 80's is what has a lot of them on edge. They would never cut their basketball team, at least I don't THINK they would.. Who know's with KSU though. They have to be the oddest fit of the 3 D-1 schools in Kansas.

KSU fan, here to give my perspective. No, Bruce Weber is not a "sexy" hire. He is, however, telling ESPN that "as of now" all players are returning. I'm anticipating a VERY SUCCESSFUL season next year. Football season next year, I predict to be VERY GOOD!

No, the "sky is not falling in Manhattan". Bleed yellow, football survived, and actually thrived, at KSU because we are very different from WSU. KSU alums will not allow KSU football to die. WSU... no one cared. It's gone. Big of you, fan of a school with no football, to think KSU would lose basketball. Funny.

[bleed yellow]

Shock-

It seems you have missed the entire point of that post of mine. I know enough about KSU to know that before Bill Snyder took over KSU football, like it or not KSU fans were on the verge of losing football in Manhattan. There was no "KSU fans aren't going to let this happen." the entire situation was way out of their hands. The point of my post was: The KSU fan base remembers what I just stated above.. Good for your A.D.. He's improving the football stadium. A lot of people who know KSU though are concerned because for whatever reason, KSU does not hire K-Staters to run the athletic department. Bill Snyder is the best thing to happen to KSU and he wasn't even a K-Stater. Bill Snyder retiring is something that is on the minds of every KSU fan because it will happen sooner rather than later. The reality of all this seems to be rattling a lot of KSU fans right now because their basketball program does not appear to be heading in a good direction either, despite having all their players return and KSU has yet to prove they can survive Bill Snyder retiring.... It just seemed to me that if KSU is losing a bunch of money in the future in both football and basketball, they could very easily end up right back where they were in 80's and looking at cutting a major sport to save cost.

[shockkansas]

Bleed-
I understand your point exactly, and you are wrong. Perhaps instead of "alums" I should have used "boosters", though at KSU they are usually both. I was at KSU in the late 1980's. It was exactly like Shocker football, sucky team and very few butts in the seats. I figured KSU football would end just as WSU's did. But there was a big difference. Those with influence at KSU would not let this happen. They knew what a horrible mistake that would be for the future of the University.

Do you think Bill Snyder just showed up and coached up the boys, and the rest took care of itself? Snyder only agreed to coach if there was a major commitment to invest in the football program. MAJOR! KSU alums, who are also major boosters, stepped up to the plate and made it happen, and we haven't looked back.

Do you realize how common it is for non-alums to lead the athletic department? Look at WSU up to Sexton. Personally, I would be more worried if my AD's only qualification for the job was being a Shocker. What D1 school, besides WSU, would have hired Sexton as an AD?

Sorry Bleed, the sky is not falling in Manhattan. No, the football stadium is growing, and the team will be ranked top 25. Men's Bball returns all but one starter from a team that won a game in the dance, and will likely be ranked pre-season. Oh, and we just won the College Bass Fishing Deal, with a team of 1! Future is so bright, we gotta wear shades.

[Kung Wu]

Men's Bball returns all but one starter from a team that won a game in the dance, and will likely be ranked pre-season.

I'm pretty sure KSU will be better under Weber than it was under Martin. Certainly cleaner. I gotta feeling about old Franky "The Cuban Bull" Martin, ya know what I mean? Fuhgeddaboudit.

[shockkansas]

I gotta feeling about old Franky "The Cuban Bull" Martin, ya know what I mean? Fuhgeddaboudit.

I've got a feeling about Kung Wu, he's a bigot/racist.

[Kung Wu]

I've got a feeling about Kung Wu, he's a bigot/racist.

Yes, I mainly hate whites, blacks, asians, and latinos, oh and those red guys. Ah and humps, present company included, too.

[SubGod22]

Are there any KSU fans on this site that aren't complete dumb assses?

[bleed yellow]

I don't know how else to phrase it to shock.. honestly.. It's good to be positive about Bruce Weber, but let's face it, the guy probably won't pan out. And then there's the football question, who does KSU have lined up for when Bill Snyder decides to retire? Currie has not seen the darkest days in his tenure at KSU yet. Next year MIGHT be decent year for KSU sports, but after that, the future is VERY grim. Just sayin!

[ISASO]

There are some very interesting obits on Frank Martin here: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=173&f=2671

Looks like the kool-aid has stopped flowing and the truth we all knew 5 years ago is being discussed openly.

Here's a sample:
I happen to believe Frank wanted out of here as soon as he could achieve a certain amount of success. In other words, I don't think Frank wanted to live in this area. I don't think it had a thing to do with his boss. He simply wanted to get out of the heartland and away from KU.

So, Frank took the unbelievable break that KSU presented him with; he took Huggs recruits; he took the D.C. pipeline and he rode Shaky Rodriquez' presents to a certain amount of success. He was hoping this success would afford him a big time opportunity (hopefully somewhere in Florida) but his shady past and his sideline demeanor (however cute it was to ESPN) caused most programs to avoid the man.

By the middle of this year, Frank was becoming desparate as he, increasingly, saw his success could be dwindling as more and more players tired of his constant berating. The D.C. pipeline was gone and the Art/Shaky pipeline was in jeopardy with Asprilla and Angel being disgusted.

I believe the disgruntled players turned to Currie, Frank expected Currie to side with him, and when he didn't, Frank made a decision (mid year) that he was out of here if any program was desparate enough to take him.
I don't believe Frank was telling players not to sign. I simply believe it was known that Frank would move on if an opportunity presented itself.

This leads me to some conclusions about Frank. Frank, despite his protests to the contrary, is a phony and is not loyal. It's all about Frank and that's okay as long as someone doesn't try and make it sound different.

And I'll just say this about Frank. I was beginning to come around to his behavioral changes, and stated as such several times after his letter to the student body last season. Forgive and forget. Right? Everyone deserves a second chance. I even thought he was growing as a coach, and becoming less stubborn. Then, that all changed for me because of a series of events that swiftly unfolded in just a few days. and I realized it was just a ruse. There are only two reasons why Frank would care about changing his sideline behavior. It was either an effort on his part to be a good little boy for the next suitor that came along and wanted him as their new coach, or an edict from Currie. Either theory is plausible. To the first point, what would be better than a "new" Frank Martin, but with the same passion and energy? As we now can surmise, Frank had an exit plan because the Titanic was taking water and going down. Frank was J.Bruce Ismay, builder of the the grand ship, who slipped onto a lifeboat with women and children to save himself. There was no way he was going down with that ship.

Frank's persona began to crack with his reaction to the Jamar suspension, and his insistence that "Jamar didn't do anything wrong, I'll take that to my grave," statement. It then escalated with the South Carolina rumors, and Martin's initial denial of any interest or contact with South Carolina. It escalated even more with his shameless appearance on CBS as "Kansas State's" basketball coach, his final audition for the South Carolina job. It hit it's zenith when he admitted on CBS that he paid former players who had gone on to be scholarship athletes, and then a day or so later denied saying it. And finally, we find out that Frank referred to the Kansas State job as a "graveyard" for coaches, and by saying that gave himself a backhanded compliment because he had "proven everyone wrong." I don't know about the recruiting issues with unsigned players, etc., and don't really care. There are enough nefarious behavioral issues for me to form my opinion of Frank Martin, and most of those came during the final weeks of the season. The bottom line is, Frank Martin hood-winked and manipulated many of us. I almost fell for it. But I began to smell something foul that night that Jamar didn't play against Syracuse, and the stink grew in the following days as we began to follow the story. So does Frank Martin deserve credit and praise for winning some games and getting us to the tournament? Some of you think so, and that's fine. But to me, he spent whatever good will that he had acquired over his five year stint, in this final days. Sometimes people are willing to pay that exit fee.

And by the way, how many posts did many of us have to endure for five years from people like you who were willing to look the other way while Martin was spitting in the face of players, and playing all of his doghouse games. THOUSANDS, I suppose. But that was OK back then, wasn't it. The great man got us to the tournament and we climbed into the upper division of the league. That's really all that mattered, right? We all wanted to believe that those dirty rumors about cheating in high school were overblown, and that be bent the rules for the good of the players. Nope. Frank played players outside of his district because he wanted to win championships and pad his own resume. Simple as that. The only thing that I ever believed or took to heart was when Frank described himself as "selfish", for taking the SC job. That word can be applied to just about every thing he did at K-State as well. Yes, that's a trait that all of us have to some degree, but Martin has it in abundance. Hate Frank Martin? Not in your life. It takes way too much energy to hate a person that I care so very little about. The only way that Frank Martin does, or has ever stirred any kind of emotion in me is when he embarrasses or speaks disparagingly about the school that I love, which is Kansas State. When he's done that in the past, or in the future, I won't let it slide.

[bleed yellow]

I think you are right when you say Martin did want to get away from KU. I also think Martin had high interest in playing WSU. I say this because Frank Martin was the only coach in the last 5 years to actually present the idea of a regional tournament, in which, the 3 Kansas schools played each other and was it Tulsa in there also? Either way, the fact that Martin actually had a regional tournament idea outlined, and presented it in public suggests that he knew convincing the powers at be at KSU, that scheduling WSU was a good idea was very difficult, so he cooked up a regional tournament idea.
Listening to what student athletes and coaches have to say is always interesting. Over the years I've heard coaches and players say getting away from KU is mainly a good thing because of their fans. Hardly anyone can tolerate KU's fan base. And I think any KSU coach who has come through Manhattan establishes this very fast. But it also leaves them to wonder about their D-1 neighbor to the West and what they are all about..To me anyways, it always seemed like Frank Martin wanted to schedule a game with WSU some how. A lot more so than Self does.

[Kung Wu]

There are some very interesting obits on Frank Martin here: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=173&f=2671

Looks like the kool-aid has stopped flowing and the truth we all knew 5 years ago is being discussed openly.

Here's a sample:

... He was hoping this success would afford him a big time opportunity (hopefully somewhere in Florida) but his shady past and his sideline demeanor (however cute it was to ESPN) caused most programs to avoid the ...

Wasting your time @ISASO:, this poster is clearly just a bigot/racist and doesn't see what real KSU fans see.