Texas and Oklahoma SEC aspirations?

[SubGod22]

ku a large public school with football, to the big East? A league of small private schools with basketballs only? Is my dropping football?

UConn did it.

I still believe KU will end up in the B1G, ACC or PAC.

[Shockm]

UConn did it.

I still believe KU will end up in the B1G, ACC or PAC.

I agree. KU didn’t hire this new football coach to drop football, and Leopold didn’t move from Buffalo to drop to MAC levels or lower than his former team (which is where UCONN is in the BE). They still think they can be somewhat successful in the ACC or PAC 12. The BIG would be tougher but the KU boosters most likely still think mid to lower levels are possible.

[SubGod22]

SI - ACC expansion seems inevitable - West Virginia and the dream of Notre Dame were obviously mentioned. Only other school's mentioned by name were UCF, though they already have two FL schools, and Cincinnati.

CBS Sports - Pac 12 Media Day - This article quotes a TV insider saying there is no value in Tech or Okie State. I kinda get it, though expanding into new markets is usually seen as a positive. Though neither carry their states, both have decently sizable bases.

LA Times - PAC 12 can be a winner during conference realignment - This story is about not adding anyone and seeing the XII simply fall behind the PAC as is. Also stating that nobody that would be left would bring value or fit with the "premier big West Coast universities".

There appear to be some Athletic articles that at least appear to be interesting, but I don't subscribe. One mentioned the AAC should go on the offensive. And if rumors of ESPN willing to back the American during this who knows how it'll play out. The Mouse has money and power when it comes to sports.

I couldn't find anything in a quick search regarding the B1G outside of a couple of team-centric sites that I'm unfamiliar with. The few PAC articles I found were very dismissive of anything in the Midwest. Does the PAC simply stay at 12 and be happy with that? Would adding some new markets not increase their share/value? The ACC seems rather content, but being an east coast conference also gives them more footprint options should they act. I don't see Notre Dame joining anyone. They have a sweet deal where they choose most of their schedule and have NBC backing them and making sure they're on national TV pretty much every week. The B1G and ACC may choose to sit tight in hopes of landing ND and then adding someone with them if necessary. Which would pretty much guarantee that neither will go to 16.

But if the XII doesn't get picked apart, it raises more questions for the AAC. Sounds like a move by UT/OU won't happen until 2025 when the current XII deal is up. Does Fox overpay the XII in hopes of drawing some of the top AAC options over, or does the decline in value give ESPN the opportunity to raise what they'll pay AAC schools with some XII additions that would maybe bring more value for schools to leave the XII for the AAC? The AAC at that time might also be able to offer more stability as I believe the XII will always be on the verge of collapse. You never know when the PAC/B1G/ACC might change their minds and pick another one or two and send them all into panic mode once again. Not that the AAC would be off limits, but there might be a little more solid grouping for safety?

And if ESPN could pull it off, and everyone is available outside of UT/OU, where is the play? Does the American go to 16 and add five schools? Which five of the remaining eight?

Then there's the what if scenario of aTm leaving the SEC over all of this and what that would bring. I'm guessing the PAC and B1G would see value with them then who knows what moves would be made...

Fun times.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

aTm would be STUPID to leave the SEC over this. That said, it's entirely possible it could happen.

I hate KU with every ounce of my being, but I acknowledge they would have value and would be a good fit for the B1G. I see it happening. I would think IA State joining them would be up to Iowa U--and I think the politicians there will put plenty of pressure on IU.

No way in hell WVU ends up in the ACC. The ACC already has dibs on Notre Dame, so they have room for one other (assuming 16 is the magic number for conferences). WVU brings nothing to the table outside of an old rivalry with Pitt. I could see them being included in an AAC/B12 merger.

I think the Pac 12 will seriously consider picking up a few B12 scraps. They've been wanting to get into the Central time zone for years and this is their opportunity. My guess is OSU and TCU.

That leaves KSU, Baylor, and TT (along with the aforementioned WVU) left to merge with the AAC. If Boise and BYU are not offered by the Pac 12 as part of its expansion of OSU and TCU, then they could be added to the "New Big 12" (merged AAC and Big 12) to create a 16 team conference.

[ShockerDropOut]

aTm is not leaving the $EC. Saw a statement from their pres. expressing the trying times, but they look forward to a long association with the $EC.

https://www.kltv.com/2021/07/24/texas-am-university-president-releases-statement-sec-expansion/

[MoValley John]

Kansas might get into the B1G. Might. That said, the B1G doesn't need or want any more football dead weight in the west. Kansas is the poster child of dead weight. The football thing is a huge hurdle for Kansas to overcome. But don't even try to explain that to a Jayhawk.

Also, the B1G is plenty good in MBB. While having KU would be a nice MBB get, it hardly overcomes the bleeding suck that is KU football, and football pulls the B1G train.

[WuShockFan]

The American should go on the offensive in this. Picking up schools like K-State, OK State, Texas Tech, Baylor, and TCU would be pretty good gets.

WSU would certainly benefit from the added prestige that would come to the new conference. If the American doesn't go on the offensive, the Big 12 is going to poach their best schools.

[WuDrWu]

Over on Phog, verrrrrrrrry entertaining.

First it was just posturing, forcing a better TV deal upcoming. lol

A plurality of fans believe the B1G has been foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to add KU (as if they couldn't have the last time around).

OU and Texas have no chance in the SEC and OU isn't in Bama's league the last 10 years (as if anyone outside of Clemson has been).

(If they are added to the West....it's not a stretch to think Bama moves to east and the west is OU, UT, Ark, A&M, LSU, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State....Ou will do just fine in that lineup)

Ku will have options on P4 choices. KSU, TT, TCU are in trouble.


Good times.

[Kung Wu]

I keep hearing two opposite things: 1) Football is 100% driving the bus, period. 2) KU is in way better situation than KSU.

KSU is KU's ***** from a basketball standpoint, I get that. But KU is KSU's ***** in football over at least the past two decades, and it isn't really close.

So it's not really JUST football, is it?

[WuDrWu]

Here is what's humorous, to me at least.

Based on the statements from the president at Okie State, it seems clear that they were caught off guard.

Ku was caught off guard, with their pants down, in a room full of underage boys by comparison.


Maybe they end up somewhere, but outside of the argument that a wide alumni base will buy online to watch games, which is a valid argument, tell me why in the world any conference wants them?

The B1G could have had them during the last round. SEC? no. ACC? Perhaps but why? PAC12? I severely doubt it.

And again, KSU is in worse shape.

[pogo]

I am really torn on how to feel about the flagship going to another conference. On the one side iif no other power conference wants them and from what I have seen from other big fan sites they really don't see an upside to them joining so if several other big 12 teams move to the AAC then we are obligated to take the flagship as well. This almost has the feel of uconn times 10 all over again except with more attitude and Self righteousness. Would the AAC really need a member under investigation for multiple violations. Perhaps admission to the conference on a probationary status might bring them down a notch or two. Ahh who am I kidding.

[WuDrWu]

I keep hearing two opposite things: 1) Football is 100% driving the bus, period. 2) KU is in way better situation than KSU.

KSU is KU's ***** from a basketball standpoint, I get that. But KU is KSU's ***** in football over at least the past two decades, and it isn't really close.

So it's not really JUST football, is it?

It's 25-5 over the last 30 years. Ku had that brief success when Ron Prince was hired and they won 4 of 5. KSU has obliterated Ku multiple times. It's ugly.

55-14, 51-13, 56-16, 59-21, 59-7, 42-6 (had to toss in a closer one), 64-0, 52-13, 50-9, 54-6, 41-7. There are plenty more beatings.

Snyder won 22 of his last 23 against Ku. Can you imagine Gregg beating Sweater Vest U 22 of 23?

It doesn't mean anything, I just wanted to enjoy that for a minute.

[The Mad Hatter]

I keep hearing two opposite things: 1) Football is 100% driving the bus, period. 2) KU is in way better situation than KSU.

KSU is KU's ***** from a basketball standpoint, I get that. But KU is KSU's ***** in football over at least the past two decades, and it isn't really close.

So it's not really JUST football, is it?

Football does drive the bus, the problem for KSU is that you have to meet a certain threshold for football success plus media market for your football program to move the needle among conference leaders. Keep in mind it is the combo of on-field success and media marketability that matters here. If you have decent production, but don't bring a media market or national recognition that is a bargaining chip in media rights negotiations, that doesn't count as a successful football program for conference realignment purposes.

It turns out that both KU and KSU are below the "attractive football program threshold" and it doesn't matter if you are a little below (KSU) or miles below (KU) because not meeting the threshold means your football program isn't contributing enough to conference media rights to get you an invite.

So if neither school's football programs are enough to make them targets, the question is whether there is another path. KU at least can hope that a conference is willing to look at something other than football (and indeed hold their nose about football), but KSU doesn't have any truly national brand or media market to sell to potential conference destinations.

[SubGod22]

Football is king.

Academics and basketball are definitely considered. KU gets points in both. They also have a national following and absolutely deliver Kansas City. Those are the selling points.

I'd heard rumors that the B1G had interest in the past. Not sure if true or not, but I could also see KU wanting to stay with the XII if everyone else was because they were essentially guaranteed to dominate basketball and they have. They probably also felt if football had a chance to grow, the XII was a better place to do it than the B1G. Now, even if the B1G was interested a decade or so ago, it doesn't mean that they still are. I do think the B1G is their best chance at staying in one of the established power conferences. I'm just not sure how great that chance is. I could possibly see the PAC consider them. KU is pretentious enough to fit in with the PAC schools. Just not sure how the PAC schools feel about them. If they want more Midwest exposure and time slots, KU does get them into KC and I would assume would be added with at least one Texas school.

KSU isn't that great at football and worse at basketball. But they absolutely deliver western Kansas if anyone finds value in that.

So yes, KU is definitely in better shape moving forward even with shitty football. I'm not entirely sure if the AAC would even take KSU if other options remained to fill whatever number they'd want to fill. KU would at least lock down KC which is a good market and they'd draw viewership from across the country, at least in basketball. That benefits the conference. They're also a perennial top 25 team with a lot of money. No brainer for the AAC if the opportunity was there. If both are available, I don't think there's any way both end up here. Not if there are other options.

[Kung Wu]

Football does drive the bus, the problem for KSU is that you have to meet a certain threshold for football success plus media market for your football program to move the needle among conference leaders. Keep in mind it is the combo of on-field success and media marketability that matters here. If you have decent production, but don't bring a media market or national recognition that is a bargaining chip in media rights negotiations, that doesn't count as a successful football program for conference realignment purposes.

It turns out that both KU and KSU are below the "attractive football program threshold" and it doesn't matter if you are a little below (KSU) or miles below (KU) because not meeting the threshold means your football program isn't contributing enough to conference media rights to get you an invite.

So if neither school's football programs are enough to make them targets, the question is whether there is another path. KU at least can hope that a conference is willing to look at something other than football (and indeed hold their nose about football), but KSU doesn't have any truly national brand or media market to sell to potential conference destinations.

I read this as media markets are driving the bus, and football is the most likely avenue to being able to deliver that.