Healthcare Hypocricy?

[ShockBand]

I normally stay out of the political forum, but does anyone think we should start decoupling healthcare insurance from employment completely? It would seem that it would make it more competitive and create individual interest in shopping around for best policies for your own needs, like we do with virtually every other kind of insurance. It would also potentially get rid of the issue of small health care groups getting hammered when you have a big cancer claim hit your group, by having the risk spread among a larger group. I'm sure there would be issues to deal with, but I just wonder if such an idea would ever get any legs. Didn't health insurance start out separate from employers decades ago?

[SubGod22]

I normally stay out of the political forum, but does anyone think we should start decoupling healthcare insurance from employment completely? It would seem that it would make it more competitive and create individual interest in shopping around for best policies for your own needs, like we do with virtually every other kind of insurance. It would also potentially get rid of the issue of small health care groups getting hammered when you have a big cancer claim hit your group, by having the risk spread among a larger group. I'm sure there would be issues to deal with, but I just wonder if such an idea would ever get any legs. Didn't health insurance start out separate from employers decades ago?

Ted Cruz actually talked about this during his 21 hour filibuster. It was started in employment towards the end of WWII to draw in employees and has stuck. He talked about how something needs to be done on the individual level to make things more affordable. One of the perks of that is if you lose your job, you wouldn't lose your health insurance. So you could pick your plan and keep it through a number of jobs. It wasn't as big a deal years ago when people would often work for the same employer for 30+ years. That's not the case anymore so employer provided insurance isn't quite the perk as it used to be in that regard.

Point is, a lot needs to be fixed, but I'm not sure the real issues can be addressed as long as ObamaCare is looming over everyone.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I would love to see pricing posted online, or available on request.

You have insurance. You go to the Doctor approved by your insurance company. You do what is suggested by your Doctor to get a couple tests done. You get a bill from your Doctor after your insurance has paid the "contracted" rate, and you still have to pay 40% of the bill for a 100% covered visit.

Ever asked a nurse or doctor about how much something will cost? It is an experience that will enlighten on how messed up the system is.

Would you ever go to dinner and order something without knowing the price? What about car work?

[wu_shizzle]

“A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.” --Milton Friedman

[jdmee]

I would love to see pricing posted online, or available on request.

You have insurance. You go to the Doctor approved by your insurance company. You do what is suggested by your Doctor to get a couple tests done. You get a bill from your Doctor after your insurance has paid the "contracted" rate, and you still have to pay 40% of the bill for a 100% covered visit.

Ever asked a nurse or doctor about how much something will cost? It is an experience that will enlighten on how messed up the system is.

Would you ever go to dinner and order something without knowing the price? What about car work?

Or you get a bill from the hospital, then you get a bill from the doctor, then you get a bill from the lab, then you get a bill from the ....

Would you ever go to a dinner and get a bill from the cook, the server and then the bus boy?

[RoyalShock]

Or you get a bill from the hospital, then you get a bill from the doctor, then you get a bill from the lab, then you get a bill from the ....

Would you ever go to a dinner and get a bill from the cook, the server and then the bus boy?

That may actually reduce cost. If you paid the hospital the full sum, then they would have to remit payment to each of those service providers. At least the middle-man is removed in one direction.

My wife does accounts payable for a hospital. They would have to hire more than one person to handle the additional workload.

[ShockRef]

An old clip..

This sums up how it went down in about 10 seconds:

But an absolute classic!

This is KC11's hero at her best. He probably has a fathead poster of her above his bed (although in jest, even the slightest possibility of being true is disturbing).


In a manner than only KC11 can, he continues to blindly support his BHO. The same BHO who now prefers to negotiate with terrorists instead of Republicans.

Hold the presses.
Wait a minute.
Stop the clock.

BHO didn't have time to deal with the government gridlock yesterday. He had a previously scheduled meeting of higher importance.
That's right - he had a 1:35 tee time.


I had to read the last sentence twice to believe what I typed.

Unbelievable.

[kcshocker11]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/obamacare-separating-truth-fiction-know-121733560.html

[SB Shock]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...121733560.html

Obviously the person who write that article has agenda because it was all crap and their own half truth to dispel the "half truths". Didn't even touch on all the new taxes that were going to be imposed.

But thanks for the comedy. U did make me laugh.

[jdmee]

I just looked it up. To get my families health insurance through my states healthcare exchange would cost me $968 per month. To get equivalent insurance through United Healthcare would cost my family under $800 per month.

[RoyalShock]

I just looked it up. To get my families health insurance through my states healthcare exchange would cost me $968 per month. To get equivalent insurance through United Healthcare would cost my family under $800 per month.

That's because you are supposed to be paying the cost of government subsidizing lower-income consumers, so they can continue to afford their rent-to-own TVs, computers, cable, internet and smartphones. Quit complaining and fall in line! What's your problem with chairty? You want poor people to die, don't you?

[RoyalShock]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...121733560.html

Myth #2: Obamacare is Killing Jobs.
Robertson says there's little evidence that Obamacare is a job killer. "The CBO has estimated it will have a small impact on jobs and ...mainly from workers choosing to work less," says Robertson. She explains that some people may reduce their working hours because they no longer need a second or third job to pay insurance premiums, while others may choose to retire early knowing they can't be denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

Is this some kind of joke? How does the word of one person dispel a so-called myth? We've already heard of several very large employers that are either cutting jobs, not adding jobs or reducing hours as a direct effect of ObamaCare.

And you have love this one:

Myth #5: Congress is Exempt from Obamacare.
Not true, says Robertson. "Congress is not exempt from the law...The law says that Congress and its staffers have to get their coverage through the exchanges that are being set up." But, Robertson says, the federal government can help pay for the premiums of that coverage, just as it does now under the Federal Employee Health Benefits program for Congress and staffers.

One group of people who can, to a person, afford it, doesn't have to pay for it - or much of it. Of course they are subject to the law. They just make the law different for them.

What a joke.

[1979Shocker]

I just looked it up. To get my families health insurance through my states healthcare exchange would cost me $968 per month. To get equivalent insurance through United Healthcare would cost my family under $800 per month.

From what I've heard and read, people in those states that opted out of the expanded medicaid will have higher premiums than people in the states that didn't. I don't know if that's true or false.

[CBB_Fan]

I've tried to avoid speaking again (since 99% of the time, people already have made up their minds when it comes from politics), but I do think this deserves another post. The World Health Organization publishes a list of the best healthcare systems in the world. Those rankings are based around 5 criteria:

• Health (50%) : disability-adjusted life expectancy
  • Overall or average : 25%
  • Distribution or equality : 25%
• Responsiveness (25%) : speed of service, protection of privacy, and quality of amenities
  • Overall or average : 12.5%
  • Distribution or equality : 12.5%
• Fair financial contribution : 25%

The US is ranked #37, despite having the highest per capita spending. It isn't a perfect system for ranking, but it is the best available. Going down the list, those countries have the following systems of healthcare:

1. France: The French system combines private and public sectors to provide universal health coverage to all. Most citizens receive their insurance through their employer and almost everyone has supplemental private insurance. The majority of medical bills are paid for by the government (funds from payroll and income taxes) and the remainder is footed by individual's supplemental private insurance.
2. Italy: Italy provides universal health care to the whole population with the 20 regions exercising control and the central government providing regulatory assistance.
3. San Marino: San Marino is home to a compulsory, state-funded healthcare system with the option for private coverage.
4. Andorra: The Andorra system is very similar to the French system. Run by the government, funds are provided by employees and employers. Only about 8% of citizens do not participate in the state-run system.
5. Malta: The Malta system is funded by general taxation through weekly national insurance contributions and offers free coverage for all.
6. Singapore: A government-run universal health care system coexists with a private sector in Singapore. The private sector provides most care while the government controls prices.
7. Spain: Spain guarantees universal coverage in its constitution and there are no out-of-pocket expenses — aside from prescription drugs.
8. Oman: Oman's health care system is largely based on local districts, with universal health care offered to all citizens and to all expatriates working in the public sector.
9. Austria: Austrian citizens and residents enjoy free access to basic health care, as do as tourists and people staying in Austria on a temporary basis. Everyone must pay into the system, levels of payment determined by an individual's income.
10. Japan: Health insurance in Japan is mandatory, either through an employer-based system or through the national health care program.
11. Norway: Norway has a universal, tax-funded, single-payer system. All citizens and residents are insured but some pay out of pocket for private and out of state care.
12. Portugal: Portugal has a very centralized health care system, with the state-run, single-payer National Health System covering most citizens. An employer based scheme is offered and used by many Portuguese though.
13. Monaco: The Caisses Sociales de Monaco controls health services in a nation where all citizens are entitled to equal access. Private options are available.
14. Greece: Greece's national health insurance program is provided by the state through a universal heath care system. Private options are available.
15. Iceland: The health care system of Iceland is under complete control by the federal government and every citizen qualifies for health care regardless of their contribution to the system. There is no private sector.
16. Luxembourg: Luxembourg has a state-funded, compulsory system with care available to all citizens. Private care is also available.
17. Netherlands: Holland's universal health coverage is achieved not through the government, which is used primarily as a regulatory body, but through private insurance companies. This system is based on private insurers competing for business.
18. United Kingdom: The government, through the National Health Service, provides the majority of health care. Free at the point of service, the program is funded by taxes. Moves to privatize certain areas have been discussed recently.
19. Ireland: Primarily tax funded, the Irish system is free (excluding the taxes citizens pay), offering differing types of coverage depending on one's income. The option of private insurance is available, which offers quicker response rates/less waiting periods.
20. Switzerland: In Switzerland, health care is guaranteed to all citizens. Citizens must buy health insurance and in return, private insurers must offer coverage to all citizens.
21. Belgium: The Belgian health care system is mandatory is a mixed public-private system. There are private providers with state-organized reimbursements.
22. Columbia: A dual system is used in Colombia, citizens using either the private or the public, subsidized health care system. A little over 60% of Colombians use the public system.
23. Sweden: A decentralized and tax payer funded system, Sweden offers health care to every citizen and will soon extend health care to illegal immigrants as well.
24. Cyprus: Cyprus's Ministry of Health provides the government funded health care while private health insurance and care is also offered, with quicker response times and wider selection of personnel and facilties.
25. Germany: Germany has the world's oldest universal health care system. Almost 90% of Germans use the public system and the remaining 10% use the private system.
26. Saudi Arabia: Saudi Arabia's health care system is mostly run through the government, with the Ministry of Health and other governmental bodies providing 80% of services. The private sector provides the remaining 20% of services.
27. UAE: The UAE has a government-funded health care system with a private sector that is small but growing at a considerable rate. The UAE is a hot spot for medical tourism.
28. Israel: Universal and compulsory health care typifies Israel's health insurance system, with health care providers consisting of public, private, and semi-private entities.
29. Morocco: The Moroccan system includes a public and private sector. The public sector is much larger and offers basic care while the private sector is split between non-profit and for-profit bodies, the latter providing more specialized care and testing services.
30. Canada: Canada has a national health care system with a centralized body setting standards and specifications for the 13 provincal bodies to follow. The provinces provide services and must follow national guidelines to receive funding.
31. Finland: Finland offers universal coverage mainly through its decentralized public health care system although a small private sector does exist.
32. Australia: Australia offers a dual system of public and private health insurance. Wealthier individuals are encouraged to use the private system by enforcing an additional 1% tax if an individual over a certain income chooses to use the public system.
33. Chile: Chile utilizes a dual health care system, offering public care through the National Health Insurance Fund, or private care by private insurance companies.
34. Denmark: Denmark's public health care system is decentralized, with local authorities making and executing local health care policy. The Ministry of Interior and Health issue rules and regulations that the authorities must follow.
35. Dominica: Dominica's health care is administered by the state run Ministry of Health. Private health care is available however, usually offered as an employee benefit to expatriates.
36. Costa Rica: Costa Rica's public health insurance system is available nation wide to all legal residents and citizens.

(source: http://www.businessinsider.com/best-...ld-2012-6?op=1)

Out of those 36 countries, only TWO have a system that is anything close to the USAs. Even then, the government sets which procedures must be covered and sets a maximum price (8% of a person's income). Additionally, insurers are non-profit agencies that cannot turn down people based on medical history, age, or risk factors and insurance is not linked to employment (letting people shop around).

The US system as is works mainly because the US throwing a ton of money at it, but it is by far the least of efficient healthcare system in world. Even if cannot go to a socialized healthcare system, for some combination of philosophical pride and ignorance, we should explore why the Swiss and Dutch systems work better than our current system. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel or ignore the rest of the world when trying to come up with a better healthcare system.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Wasnt that report 13 years ago? I wonder what the status is now. Some rumors mention they didnt do it again in 2010 because many of those "Top Ranked" systems were on the verge of bankruptcy or flat out collapse.

Isnt Healthcare one of the largest expenses of most European countries and a major reason why many of them are in such economic distress?