Charlottesville riots

[ShockerPhi]

Me: Can't believe someone as intelligent as you are cannot differentiate between a fringe group of maybe 5000 hard core BLM lunatic and the 60 million that voted for Trump.

THAT'S a real outrage.

Uh, you literally said ALL with capital letters when referring to BLM. Not a fringe group of them. So...

[ShockerPhi]

I dunno who the alt-right is, Trump voters?

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/94273282/#ampshare=http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/22/alt-right-trump-white-nationalist-clinton-breitbart-spencer/94273282/

This ABC News article from Nov of last year does a pretty good job defining the alt-right. It is certainly not a definition of all Trump voters, but it's a safe bet that anyone associated with the movement voted for Trump...

[pinstripers]

Younger college people who are opposed to taking Syrians? That's a movement?

[wufan]

Younger college people who are apposed to taking Syrians? That's a movement?

The alt-right believes in identity politics (non-starter for me). They believe that white folk, like other ethnic groups, deserve a place in society to espouse their views. Again, the problem here is identity with a group instead of identity as an individual. They believe that not all cultures are equal (probably true), and that the western civilization is the best civilization as of yet created (I'm kinda down with that). Western civilization was started by white folks (mostly true) and western civilization cannot be separated from white folks (totally disagree).

Because western covilization is the best and because other civilizations (read races here) are not accepting of western civilization, the best outcome is to separate the civilizations (races) and let each have their own nation.

There is some common ground in this theory with constitutional conservatism. Western civilization is the best known civilization. There is also a disdain for SJW types (AntiFa being the violent faction) that push against western civilization (see third wave feminists allying with sharia muslims).

Critical differences between alt-right and constitutional conservatives:

CCs see each individual as equal under God/natural law. Because each individual is equal under God, they are equal under the law. Equal under the law means equal opportunity for success/failure. This view is blind to background. Alt-right sees each group as unequal. Because the groups are unequal, the laws should be passed to ensure that the best way (western civilization) and its founders (whitey) are protected for the growth in future generations.

You can see where pushing certain agendas (protection of western civilization) can make some CCs believe there is a kinship with the Alt-right, and see where the protection of western civilization can make some leftists suspicious that the CC is a racist.

[Play Angry]

The alt-right believes in identity politics (non-starter for me). They believe that white folk, like other ethnic groups, deserve a place in society to espouse their views. Again, the problem here is identity with a group instead of identity as an individual. They believe that not all cultures are equal (probably true), and that the western civilization is the best civilization as of yet created (I'm kinda down with that). Western civilization was started by white folks (mostly true) and western civilization cannot be separated from white folks (totally disagree).

Because western covilization is the best and because other civilizations (read races here) are not accepting of western civilization, the best outcome is to separate the civilizations (races) and let each have their own nation.

There is some common ground in this theory with constitutional conservatism. Western civilization is the best known civilization. There is also a disdain for SJW types (AntiFa being the violent faction) that push against western civilization (see third wave feminists allying with sharia muslims).

Critical differences between alt-right and constitutional conservatives:

CCs see each individual as equal under God/natural law. Because each individual is equal under God, they are equal under the law. Equal under the law means equal opportunity for success/failure. This view is blind to background. Alt-right sees each group as unequal. Because the groups are unequal, the laws should be passed to ensure that the best way (western civilization) and its founders (whitey) are protected for the growth in future generations.

You can see where pushing certain agendas (protection of western civilization) can make some CCs believe there is a kinship with the Alt-right, and see where the protection of western civilization can make some leftists suspicious that the CC is a racist.

That is an interesting analysis and contrast that I hadn't seen before. Thanks for posting it.

[jdshock]

I was actually pretty happy with Trump's response yesterday.

And then today he doubled down on his defense of the nazis.

[pinstripers]

The alt-right believes in identity politics (non-starter for me). They believe that white folk, like other ethnic groups, deserve a place in society to espouse their views. Again, the problem here is identity with a group instead of identity as an individual. They believe that not all cultures are equal (probably true), and that the western civilization is the best civilization as of yet created (I'm kinda down with that). Western civilization was started by white folks (mostly true) and western civilization cannot be separated from white folks (totally disagree).

Because western covilization is the best and because other civilizations (read races here) are not accepting of western civilization, the best outcome is to separate the civilizations (races) and let each have their own nation.

There is some common ground in this theory with constitutional conservatism. Western civilization is the best known civilization. There is also a disdain for SJW types (AntiFa being the violent faction) that push against western civilization (see third wave feminists allying with sharia muslims).

Critical differences between alt-right and constitutional conservatives:

CCs see each individual as equal under God/natural law. Because each individual is equal under God, they are equal under the law. Equal under the law means equal opportunity for success/failure. This view is blind to background. Alt-right sees each group as unequal. Because the groups are unequal, the laws should be passed to ensure that the best way (western civilization) and its founders (whitey) are protected for the growth in future generations.

You can see where pushing certain agendas (protection of western civilization) can make some CCs believe there is a kinship with the Alt-right, and see where the protection of western civilization can make some leftists suspicious that the CC is a racist.

Well, I thought I was a cowboy, but now I'm kinda thinkin that I'm a lesbian.

[pinstripers]

I was actually pretty happy with Trump's response yesterday.

And then today he doubled down on his defense of the nazis.

He criticized the second group, I never heard him defend the Natzis.

[wufan]

Well, I thought I was a cowboy, but now I'm kinda thinkin that I'm a lesbian.

Not a lesbian if you believe that; western civilization is good and that group identity is bad. Also it helps that you are a cys-gendered male, although that can be overcome by gender fluidity and sexual identity. :smug:

[wufan]

That is an interesting analysis and contrast that I hadn't seen before. Thanks for posting it.

These ideas are not my own. I researched it when an alt-righty and I had agreement on a few issues. A little research went a long way in helping me realize that we did not believe the same thing.

[wufan]

He criticized the second group, I never heard him defend the Natzis.

He blamed the media for not accepting his new statements. While not a defense of white nationalists, it does bring back the question about whether or not he is pandering to them.

[pinstripers]

Well, it looks like there were two groups went lookin for trouble and they found it.

[Kel Varnsen]

That's the thing though - the First Amendment isn't about adjudicating morality.

Reminds me of one of my favorite rants:

[WuDrWu]

Uh, you literally said ALL with capital letters when referring to BLM. Not a fringe group of them. So...

You misunderstood. Allow me to clarify. Real BLM members are a fringe group. I'm not talking about the random paid and bused in yellers. I'm calling the real BLM movement a small fringe group and ALL of them are hate filled awful people. There is no comparison to that small fringe group (again, if you're struggling, not a fringe of a group, a group that is fringe in their totality) and roughly half of the voting country that chose Trump for President.

[WuDrWu]

He blamed the media for not accepting his new statements. While not a defense of white nationalists, it does bring back the question about whether or not he is pandering to them.

In my opinion, you have to squint pretty damned hard, with intent, to find him pandering to white nationalists or the like. He has loudly condemned them and called for the driver of the car to essentially be executed as soon as possible.