Charlottesville riots

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

With apologies to @Jamar Howard 4 President, I'm about to lump some folks together. Almost unequivocally, if you're marching with a large group of people that are chanting "Jews will not replace us!" you are not a "fine person."

I 100% agree with that "lumping".

"All rapists are bad people." There, I just lumped people together. Often it is bad, but it isn't always wrong to do. In certain cases, it is actually wise.

Common sense discernment tells us when its ok.

[jdshock]

I 100% agree with that "lumping".

"All rapists are bad people." There, I just lumped people together. Often it is bad, but it isn't always wrong to do. In certain cases, it is actually wise.

Common sense discernment tells us when its ok.

My comment was made with tongue planted firmly in cheek. You have been pretty clear on your thoughts with recent events.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Me: Can't believe someone as intelligent as you are cannot differentiate between a fringe group of maybe 5000 hard core BLM lunatic and the 60 million that voted for Trump.

THAT'S a real outrage.

Goalpost change noted. "BLM folks" from your first post now excludes tens of thousands who have taken place in marches and self-identify as BLM. Seems like you are trying to weasel your way out of a wrongheaded statement with a really lame excuse that you were using a bizarre definition of words.

*Thanks for the compliment on my intelligence.
**Even with the goalpost change and your stupid word games, I still disagree that every single one of the top 5000 BLM folks hate cops (some yes. but all? no.)

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

VICE is an agenda and a terrific example of what gets touted as fake news. It's not news.

What pray tell about that piece was fake news?

[WuDrWu]

Goalpost change noted. "BLM folks" from your first post now excludes tens of thousands who have taken place in marches and self-identify as BLM. Seems like you are trying to weasel your way out of a wrongheaded statement with a really lame excuse that you were using a bizarre definition of words.

*Thanks for the compliment on my intelligence.
**Even with the goalpost change and your stupid word games, I still disagree that every single one of the top 5000 BLM folks hate cops (some yes. but all? no.)

So just to be clear, there were no people interested, as I am, in being heard that the removal of that statue is worthy of a peaceful protest, having NOTHING to do with so called white supremacy, pro Nazi or any other clearly defined hate group? That is what you are saying, correct?

[Play Angry]

It's almost like people are willing to pretend that this gathering wasn't organized by white nationalist, white supremacist and KKK affiliated groups when describing the protesters.

Did they have a right to be there and peacefully protest? Sure. Is describing this event in a way that characterizes the protesters as mostly fine folks who just love their dadgum statue until a few bad racist apples ruined it for everyone both misleading and embarrassing? Sure.

[Aargh]

...trying to weasel your way out of a wrongheaded statement with a really lame excuse ...

Maybe we could just call that a Trumpism.

[jdshock]

So just to be clear, there were no people interested, as I am, in being heard that the removal of that statue is worthy of a peaceful protest, having NOTHING to do with so called white supremacy, pro Nazi or any other clearly defined hate group? That is what you are saying, correct?

Is your stance that a lot of these reasonable folks crashed a neo nazi rally?

[pogo]

I believe that the NAZIs are racist and looking for trouble in Charlottesville and the ANTIFA showed up and murder-mayhem broke out.

However, the ANTIFA showed up in the Ferguson RIOTS and there were no NAZIs. They showed up in the Baltimore RIOTS and there were no NAZIs. They showed in the RIOTS in DC after Pres. Trump was elected and no NAZIs. The ANTIFA showed up in the Berkely RIOTS and there was no NAZI. The ANTIFA showed up in the Wall Street sitin NY and the violence that followed and there were no NAZIs. The ANTIFA showed up at Trump campaign rallies and RIOTS/Violence broke out. There were no NAZIs. The ANTIFA are professionals. They don't have jobs but fly around the US to sew hate. Does anyone see a pattern yet?

Sounds like Westboro Baptist just with better funding. Just a poor attempt at local humor.

[Boss1786]

Sounds like Westboro Baptist just with better funding

And leave the destruction and mayhem behind for the community to have to pick up and mend.

I do not endorse white supremacy or Nazism but I sure noted that the initial acts of violence we're committed by counter-protesters standing on the sides of the route.

[Play Angry]

And leave the destruction and mayhem behind for the community to have to pick up and mend.

I do not endorse white supremacy or Nazism but I sure noted that the initial acts of violence we're committed by counter-protesters standing on the sides of the route.

Do you have a link to this? In most of the footage I watched, it was difficult to tell who initiated the skirmishes. If there is footage of the violence at the outset of that morning's event, I'd like to watch it.

[Aargh]

And leave the destruction and mayhem behind for the community to have to pick up and mend.

I do not endorse white supremacy or Nazism but I sure noted that the initial acts of violence we're committed by counter-protesters standing on the sides of the route.

There is absolutely no way that could have been observed, even if the entire parade route was continuously filmed and then released without editing or even if you had been there in person. I am confident there are incidents up and down the parade route where violence broke out. Determining which one occurred "first" and who committed it is a fool's errand. It can't be done.

[WuDrWu]

Is describing this event in a way that characterizes the protesters as mostly fine folks who just love their dadgum statue until a few bad racist apples ruined it for everyone both misleading and embarrassing? Sure.

100% agree. Who did this? I haven't heard anyone say the protesters were "mostly" fine folks. I heard the President say there were some fine people on both sides....which honestly I took as a very poorly phrased (which he is the king of) way of saying "there are fair minded people 'out there' (not necessarily at the Charlottesville protest) that disagree with the statue removal. I'll save JH4P and any other crackpot the time and say I understand if you want to accuse me of defending the President and trying to fix what he said, that's fair. But that IS honestly how I took his comment. He's tired, as many of us are, at having different, more stringent rules for "us", whoever us happens to be, when "the other side" is given a free pass.

There is no place for violence.
The person/persons responsible should be punished as swiftly and thoroughly as the law allows.
Throw everything including the kitchen sink at the driver.
We ALL need to learn to be more understanding of other's views.
Discourse is not always bad, violence and hate are.
Hate is wrong no matter where it exists.
Hate is not exclusive to the extraordinarily small fringe group like KKK, Neo Nazis etc.

I will add, if you can lay your head down at night and truly believe President Trump is a pro Neo-Nazi, when he is without question the strongest supporter of Israel to EVER occupy the Oval Office, when his daughter is a practicing Jew.....if you REALLY believe that to be the case, then I pray for your soul because you are terribly, horribly misguided.

[Kel Varnsen]

Everyone agrees that Nazism is awful (I'd also posit that the prevalence of actual "white supremacy" is so rare and magnified by a vocal minority and members of the media who want so badly to paint everyone on the right side of the aisle with this broad brush). We also probably shouldn't blindly follow everyone who is "anti-Nazi". Just saying.

[WuDrWu]

Is your stance that a lot of these reasonable folks crashed a neo nazi rally?

Not at all. I believe 2 groups of people looking for a fight were there. It makes me cringe, but they had a right to peaceful protest, although one had a permit and the other not. I do not know, one way or the other, if there was a reasonable person that "crashed" the skinhead party to protest the removal of the statue. If I were a betting man, I'd say there were probably a few somewhere in the area. I certainly wouldn't have associated myself with them for anything, but I would like to be heard (not necessarily on this forum, but in general) on the removal of statues that are no longer considered politically correct, if that's ok with you?

And I think I, and many others, can have that stance and discussion without actually being hateful racists scumbags, as you and so many others are quick to lump people together as. Or can we not?