Trump

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Couldn't stop ObamaCare, but stopped the public option.
Stopped cap and trade
Extended some of Bush tax cuts that would have simply expired if Dems had their way.
State level restrictions on abortion have been trending more and more in R's favor due to massive majority of R's in state offices nationwide.
Stopped majority of Obama's gun control legislation
Blocked many of Obama's judicial nominees

I'm not even arguing that conservatives have done a great job. They haven't. I'm just saying that some times people go too far, try to say there is no difference between the parties, and ignore that R's have accomplished SOME good in recent years.

If you have been disappointed with conservatives failing to be conservative enough in office, Trump sure isn't going to help make you feel better. If conservatives have been too liberal, the answer is not to bring in a guy even more liberal than them all.

[SB Shock]

Long time. Probably late 90s during Clinton's lame duck phase.



Although misguided, DOMA under Bush II was probably a strong recent example. At the state levels, there has been a flurry of abortion legislation over the last half dozen years.



Depends on what is meant here. If spending is the focus, we've dished out the pork consistently for four decades now. If tone is the focus, probably Bush II during the Iraq surge was the last time a real divide existed and team R sided "with the military," giving it the strategic freedom and resources the democrats opposed. If something else is intended, more detail would be necessary to answer.



Taxes - Republicans have been reliably strong on "pro-growth," low tax rates at the highest levels of the income spectrum.

Spending - Republicans have been pure and utter and **** since Clinton's presidency, with a brief respite in 2010 where they attempted (mostly failed) to role back some of Obama's expansions.



Its persuasiveness in the national conversation has been waning for a decade-plus. Before, however, there was hope (hah) that a candidate might actually follow through on his lip service to those principles. With Trump, it is an embrace of open hostility to those ideas.

How we arrived here might have been a gradual process, but on its face the shift is pretty seismic.

Before this primary had officially started - I was 100% sure that the Republican Party would draft a good conservative nominee - but the problem is in reality I don't believe they wanted one and screwed around with moderates and opened the door for trump. They could have stopped Trump if they want to. This primary is not a democratic national election, but for the Republican Party to determine their candidate they want to forward with. If the party was really against Trump then the convention would be open. They make the rules.

[Play Angry]

Before this primary had officially started - I was 100% sure that the Republican Party would draft a good conservative nominee - but the problem is in reality I don't believe they wanted one and screwed around with moderates and opened the door for trump. They could have stopped Trump if they want to. This primary is not a democratic national election, but for the Republican Party to determine their candidate they want to forward with. If the party was really against Trump then the convention would be open. They make the rules.

I completely agree that Trump's emergence as the national banner bearer for Republicans is an affront to conservatism and illustrative of the failings of the party's leadership. Priebus and his cohorts are a complete joke.

[ShockdaWorld]

#NeverHillary #NeverTrump

Can we please just put these two on a deserted island and let them live out their lives together while we as Americans search for a more worthy candidate? I say "more worthy" because I think we all know NOONE gets to that level of government without some skeletons in their closet.

[SB Shock]

Couldn't stop ObamaCare, but stopped the public option.
Stopped cap and trade
Extended some of Bush tax cuts that would have simply expired if Dems had their way.
State level restrictions on abortion have been trending more and more in R's favor due to massive majority of R's in state offices nationwide.
Stopped majority of Obama's gun control legislation
Blocked many of Obama's judicial nominees

I'm not even arguing that conservatives have done a great job. They haven't. I'm just saying that some times people go too far, try to say there is no difference between the parties, and ignore that R's have accomplished SOME good in recent years.

If you have been disappointed with conservatives failing to be conservative enough in office, Trump sure isn't going to help make you feel better. If conservatives have been too liberal, the answer is not to bring in a guy even more liberal than them all.

I know there is a difference - not arguing that. There are some very good republican conservative - but I would argue are stifled by the republican leadership. If not for those stalwarts conservative who would not waiver to the pressure of the republican leadership who say u must have flexible principles - instead of the slow roasting that conservative are taking now, it would have been much more profound.

[Dave Stalwart]

The next time the Shox are up by 30, and someone posts, "Dang, up by 30! This is a blowout" I'm gonna wait until the end when the final margin is only 26 and jump their case over and over for claiming the Shox won by 30. I'll ignore their point about it being a blowout (which it still was) and that the margin actually was 30 at the time of their post. Reporting and commenting on the score of an in progress game is a heinous crime, and it must be punished!

I'll call it giving them the "@Kung Wu: treatment".

But I'm pretty sure when it comes to scores and statistics that sounds exactly like something you would do. :)

[Cdizzle]

But I'm pretty sure when it comes to scores and statistics that sounds exactly like something you would do. :)

Especially if it was against a B12 team. Then he could still proclaim they play great defense.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

You are right you never asserted it. That was poor word choice. I meant "imply", which you clearly did unless it was a mistake. I get to log into Shockernet about once a week on a computer. The rest of the time it's drive-by quick rqction posting on a phone, such as now. Hence mistakes happen. I admit my mistakes. You don't. Since you won't admit that you made a mistake -- unless in your mind that has already happened -- I can only assume you meant to mislead. That makes you a liar.

You realize your whole argument is that you know what I meant in my original post better than I do? You are the only one that misunderstood. Other posters have commented that they understood exactly what I was saying.

However, none of that should matter. We are here to communicate ideas, and I have made every possible effort responding to you to help you understand my point. A good and honest man says "OK, thanks for clarifying. Sorry I misunderstood you." and the conversation can move forward. All you keep doing is responding that you don't even care about my ideas, you just want to claim I made a typo and make ridiculous claims questioning my honesty. Next you will probably be telling me that my mini research project diatribe on why the Shox should get in the NCAA Tournament this year (boy was that a long post) requires an apology because you disagree with my word choice of whom vs who.

You know exactly what you are doing, and it is the epitome of scummy behavior. I'm glad you can back away from the word "asserted", but you are still being a butt. You have even admitted that you don't want to discuss ideas, just reach for ways to attack my integrity.

You are the deceptive one, playing games back and forth between serious discussion and pretentious and disingenuous nonsense. You play that game so that you can float out ideas, continue the conversation if it goes the way you want, and the fall back on "eh, I was just being a dick for the fun of it" if the discussion doesn't go the way you wanted to. I despise that game.

If you continually insist that your misunderstanding, despite my straightforward assistance to clarify, is somehow my fault, then you are just a complete jerk. I haven't dropped this because it is a pet peeve of mine. I despise people who are out to push bad motives on others for no good reason. It is one (of many) reasons I have such contempt for ShockerFever. I never intended to deceive anyone, and your continual arguing that I did is beyond unnecessary. I'm not joking when I say you are representing Trumpishness perfectly. It is really amazing how strong the correlation is between Trump support and a desire to play unfair, seek out the worst in others, and generally act like an ass.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

But I'm pretty sure when it comes to scores and statistics that sounds exactly like something you would do. :)

I like to argue facts, and analysis of those facts, to the death, but I am probably the most patient person on this board at trying to understand what the other person is trying to say and focusing my argument on their ideas. I have never intentionally misrepresented another poster's thoughts the way @Kung Wu has tried to do to me in this thread.

Honesty is huge to me. Show me anywhere that I've been dishonest and I'll quickly apologize.

[ShockerEngineer]

The problem is always everyone else, never you. Yep.

And your constant, automatic, indictment of anyone who would support Trump is also scummy behavior, imo.

[ShockdaWorld]

I like to argue facts, and analysis of those facts, to the death, but I am probably the most patient person on this board at trying to understand what the other person is trying to say and focusing my argument on their ideas. I have never intentionally misrepresented another poster's thoughts the way @Kung Wu has tried to do to me in this thread.

Honesty is huge to me. Show me anywhere that I've been dishonest and I'll quickly apologize.

Completely off subject, but I can't find the original thread, and greatly enjoyed the discussion. Did we (mostly any of you guys that are better with research and numbers) ever come up with any kind of data that gave an indication as to the reason(s) for the B12 underperforming in the big dance?

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

@ShockdaWorld:

You can start here and read backwards if you'd like. I never heard an explanation that felt very compelling, IMO.

I definitely agree there is a trend. I'm just not yet convinced that I've found a reasonable explanation for it. The theory that the ACC has better coaches would be the closest thing to a possible explanation that I've heard yet, but I'm still not fully convinced. Mark Gottfried led 8 seed NC State to the Sweet 16 in 2015. The Big 12 never seems to get those types of results. Somehow I just don't see Mark as a better coach than most of the coaches in the Big 12.

[shocka khan]

It is really amazing how strong the correlation is between Trump support and a desire to play unfair, seek out the worst in others, and generally act like an ass.

This has to be the most biased, uninformed comment I have read in my years following this blog. Have you seen what Hillary is doing? I'm a moderate independent, I can't stand Hillary, I think she is also dividing the country, she is playing unfair (with the assistance of the media), she is not building hope for all Americans.

Kvetch about her and you will see a whole bunch of her supporters generally act like asses.

It's called politics.


I am a 'heavy leaner' towards Trump the way this is playing out. I supported (and voted for) Bernie Sanders and wish Elizabeth Warren had decided to run.

You might as well start wearing a "Clinton for President" sticker on your forehead. I suggest you take a selfie and use it for your new avitar.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

This has to be the most biased, uninformed comment I have read in my years following this blog. Have you seen what Hillary is doing? I'm a moderate independent, I can't stand Hillary, I think she is also dividing the country, she is playing unfair (with the assistance of the media), she is not building hope for all Americans.

Kvetch about her and you will see a whole bunch of her supporters generally act like asses.

It's called politics.

I agree Hillary is a horrible person. Her supporters aren't all angels by any means, but in my experience, her supporters do not have a median level of hateful, dishonest, degrading, and scummy behavior quite up to the level I see in the median Trump supporter. Her supporters might be bad, just not as bad as Trump's.

I mean seriously. Trump has the support of the Nazis, skinheads, open racists, white supremacist, etc. His supporters are setting new lows in human decency in politics.

I am a 'heavy leaner' towards Trump the way this is playing out. I supported (and voted for) Bernie Sanders and wish Elizabeth Warren had decided to run.

You might as well start wearing a "Clinton for President" sticker on your forehead. I suggest you take a selfie and use it for your new avitar.

I strongly feel that we are better off with a motivated Republican congress fighting Hillary tooth and nail than a Trump presidency where resistance will be much harder. Also, as much as I despise Hillary, I find Trump even more despicable as a human being. I could never vote for the man.

All of that said, I'm sympathetic to those who decide to vote Trump over Hillary while holding their nose. It is the people who dared to root for Trump over any of the alternatives in the primary that disgust me.

[ShockdaWorld]

I think I've made it pretty clear I am not a supporter of any of the current candidates. As far as acting like ass holes, I actually saw a video the other day that surprised me. There was a guy that had a Vote Trump sign and a Vote Bernie sign. Unfortunately, he didn't have a Vote Hillary sign to get a third comparison. Anyway, when he held up the Vote Bernie sign and yelled, "Vote Bernie," people drove or walked by and either cheered or gave him dirty looks, shook their heads, and walked on by. When he held up the Vote Trump sign and yelled, "Vote Trump," people either walked or drove by cheering, or stopped and confronted him, a couple threatening violence, one taking and tearing up his sign, and a couple of others throwing their drinks at him as they drove by. So, tell me again, who are the assholes?