Sanders - Hit Everybody

[SHOCKvalue]

Paid maternity leave pisses me off. Why should you get a paid vacation every time you decide to plop out another dependent? People who choose not to have children don't get two months paid time off due to random life events; why are you suddenly a protected species when you choose to reproduce? Call me an a-hole if you want, but it is a massive case of unequal treatment. Unpaid I have zero problem with, assuming people who choose not to have kids can also be allowed to take similar unpaid leaves-of-absence.

We wouldn't need to have the debate on paid maternity leave if the US could simply figure out how to disburse paid vacation in volumes more similar to what the vast majority of the developed first world gets. The prevailing forces in the US job market might as well have a round of drinks together with Kim Jong-un with the whole two weeks a year nonsense.

I'm not sure if the above rant places me to the left or right, but it is one of the main forces that lead me to a career in a self-employed field. Work to live, not live to work.

[MoValley John]

Call me an a-hole if you want

A-HOLE!

I don't know if you're an a-hole, but if someone asks to be called an a-hole, I guess I better ablige.

[wufan]

Paid maternity leave pisses me off. Why should you get a paid vacation every time you decide to plop out another dependent? People who choose not to have children don't get two months paid time off due to random life events; why are you suddenly a protected species when you choose to reproduce? Call me an a-hole if you want, but it is a massive case of unequal treatment. Unpaid I have zero problem with, assuming people who choose not to have kids can also be allowed to take similar unpaid leaves-of-absence.

We wouldn't need to have the debate on paid maternity leave if the US could simply figure out how to disburse paid vacation in volumes more similar to what the vast majority of the developed first world gets. The prevailing forces in the US job market might as well have a round of drinks together with Kim Jong-un with the whole two weeks a year nonsense.

I'm not sure if the above rant places me to the left or right, but it is one of the main forces that lead me to a career in a self-employed field. Work to live, not live to work.

I believe 12 weeks unpaid is protected by law. I think this also falls under the family leave act where you can obtain unpaid leave for medical reasons other than maternity or illness of the employee.

[Dan]

That is correct, the family medical leave act protects your job so your employer can't terminate you while out on maternity leave or other serious illnesses. The fact that some companies elect to give paid maternity leave is an extra benefit that they elect to provide, it is not part of the government program.

[SHOXAAC]

A-HOLE!

I don't know if you're an a-hole, but if someone asks to be called an a-hole, I guess I better ablige.

Call me a stud bucket deluxe times two if you want!!!

[Shocker-maniac]

Call me a stud bucket deluxe times two if you want!!!

You stud buck . . , hmm (cough, clear throat)'
You stucket . . . (Cough, cough),
You stuck deluxe .. .

NEVER MIND

[MoValley John]

Call me a stud bucket deluxe times two if you want!!!

Hmmm.


No.

[Aargh]

Back to the original thread topic.

Sooner or later everybody is going to get hit. I'm hoping it doesn't happen in my lifetime.

$18 trillion isn't just going to go away. With all the exporting of jobs, it's unlikely we'll ever have an economy able to repay that debt. Maximizing profits - but also being able to maintain pricing that works in international markets - has cost the US economy a lot of the manufacturing economy we used to have.

Eventually, the **** is going to hit the fan. When it does, Wal-Mart employees who are already surviving off of government benefits aren't going to have any money the government can go after. We're pretty much already unequivocally committed to a progressive tax system. The bottom end of the economic scale doesn't have any money they can contribute to government.

I suspect we're going to end up requiring the bottom end of the economic scale to contribute. That will leave us with something like Brazil has with their ghettos or what India has with their caste system where some citizens are just expected to live in absolute poverty.

[wufan]

Back to the original thread topic.

Sooner or later everybody is going to get hit. I'm hoping it doesn't happen in my lifetime.

$18 trillion isn't just going to go away. With all the exporting of jobs, it's unlikely we'll ever have an economy able to repay that debt. Maximizing profits - but also being able to maintain pricing that works in international markets - has cost the US economy a lot of the manufacturing economy we used to have.

Eventually, the **** is going to hit the fan. When it does, Wal-Mart employees who are already surviving off of government benefits aren't going to have any money the government can go after. We're pretty much already unequivocally committed to a progressive tax system. The bottom end of the economic scale doesn't have any money they can contribute to government.

I suspect we're going to end up requiring the bottom end of the economic scale to contribute. That will leave us with something like Brazil has with their ghettos or what India has with their caste system where some citizens are just expected to live in absolute poverty.

IMO, the way to avoid this is to create more private sector jobs and to decrease waste in the government. Easier said than done, but one theory that has worked and has failed in history is to create economic incentives (tax breaks) for corporations to be in the US. If people have good jobs, then they have the ability to pay taxes.

Remember too that our poor have things like smart phones, cable/satellite TV, cars. The US poor is a far cry from the poor in India and Brazil.

[WuDrWu]

That is correct, the family medical leave act protects your job so your employer can't terminate you while out on maternity leave or other serious illnesses. The fact that some companies elect to give paid maternity leave is an extra benefit that they elect to provide, it is not part of the government program.

It only applies to large companies, I think over 100 employees (it might be 50).

I discuss this topic with people often (especially employees that have recently taken or are about to take time off for maternity).

I'd put the number at just slightly above 0 for the percentage that have considered the effect on the company of their absence. It's just a little funny in a sad way that it's basically no problem at all for the company to absorb the missing production for that length of time.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

It only applies to large companies, I think over 100 employees (it might be 50).

I discuss this topic with people often (especially employees that have recently taken or are about to take time off for maternity).

I'd put the number at just slightly above 0 for the percentage that have considered the effect on the company of their absence. It's just a little funny in a sad way that it's basically no problem at all for the company to absorb the missing production for that length of time.

It applies to all companies with 50 or more employees.
Im torn on the subject of paid maternity leave. Currently the leave is considered unpaid even though virtually all employers pay it due to their vacation/sick time/PTO policies. Im perfectly fine with women taking the full time off as that time is very important for not only the mother to recuperate but also for the child as well. I am sure there are ways we can have paid maternity leave without utilizing vacation/PTO etc in a way that works for everyone.

Companies large and small are in business for one purpose. Make money. Nothing wrong with that. I like money. I hope to one day have alot of it. however this is not the 20's/30's/40's etc or whatever era people want to "take America back to" Anymore people are living to work and MANY of these people are barely living. People love to trash fast food workers, walmart employees etc but many dont know or even care that those people are skilled but due to outsourcing and companies simply closing their doors they are unable to find work in their specific field. When I worked for the state it was really crazy to see people coming in to speak with me and with no pause "unless Im making 100,000 a year i wont get off my couch" and then 4 months later calling me frustrated and in tears because no company is willing to hire them.
There was to be a medium somewhere.

[SB Shock]

I would be good with paid maternity leave if there was there was also Paid March Madness leave option also.

[ShockBand]

I would be good with paid maternity leave if there was there was also Paid March Madness leave option also.

Isn't that what happens AT the workplace in most cases? :)

Heck, let's make the Thursday and Friday of the first weekend of the NCAAs a national holiday! Productivity is already shot to hell those days anyway!

[WuDrWu]

It applies to all companies with 50 or more employees.
Im torn on the subject of paid maternity leave. Currently the leave is considered unpaid even though virtually all employers pay it due to their vacation/sick time/PTO policies. Im perfectly fine with women taking the full time off as that time is very important for not only the mother to recuperate but also for the child as well. I am sure there are ways we can have paid maternity leave without utilizing vacation/PTO etc in a way that works for everyone.

Companies large and small are in business for one purpose. Make money. Nothing wrong with that. I like money. I hope to one day have alot of it. however this is not the 20's/30's/40's etc or whatever era people want to "take America back to" Anymore people are living to work and MANY of these people are barely living. People love to trash fast food workers, walmart employees etc but many dont know or even care that those people are skilled but due to outsourcing and companies simply closing their doors they are unable to find work in their specific field. When I worked for the state it was really crazy to see people coming in to speak with me and with no pause "unless Im making 100,000 a year i wont get off my couch" and then 4 months later calling me frustrated and in tears because no company is willing to hire them.
There was to be a medium somewhere.

Really good points. Thanks for clarifying the 50-100 thing. As a small business guy it's virtually impossible for me to have someone out for 6-14 weeks. The work has to be done. You don't have the backup to cover the work so you either hire someone (and training short term makes no sense) and replace them or do the work yourself (often beyond impractical).

This may sound odd, but I too have seen your scenario played out many times. I think it's kind of an extension of the American dream gone insane.

What I mean is that for all time, to propagate our species we have children and we want our children to have a better life than we do, almost without fail.

It's likely our parents, and it's almost a mortal lock our grandparents suffered many life setbacks. Our generations aren't interested in setbacks. Tomorrow needs to be better than today.

Next year MUST be better than this year. And if it isn't well then, it's someone's fault.

I remember, not that long ago (could be say 20 years? and that maybe too generous) there was a commercial for an insurance company or financial adviser.

A young man was visiting with his dad, sitting at a table (he was probably mid to late 20s) and his father was asking him about his job...saying something like...what are you making $25? (thousand)

Maybe...maybe a little more.....

Are you making 30? You're telling me you're making 30k and you don't have a plan?

I know 30k 20 years ago isn't 30k today. But even if it's 60 (and with inflation it's probably not) the point was that was good money, but you should be planning for the future and living within your means.

Our personal debt has skyrocketed. So many people have "things" that they pay forever on. Everyone, even the most destitute have a smart phone. That's not considered debt, but it sure the heck is, and you're likely paying for it for a year or 2, every month, and at the end you don't use it until it's gone, you just start over paying for the next one. Same with cars. Many of the poorest drive their own car, everywhere. Carpooling is a term many may not even know. I want to drive myself, everywhere, so I get to do what I want to do when I want to do it.

Give me now, I'll worry about paying for it later, and it fosters the attitude of "I need tomorrow to be better than today".

We have SO much more today than 50 years ago. SO MUCH MORE. Cars, computers, space, day to day living upgrades. How many of us eat out every day? It's expensive, but we see it as a quality of life upgrade because we spend less time preparing a meal so we can do what we want when we want, kind of ignoring the cost.

The thing is, all these things come at a price. And seemingly, we don't seem willing to pay that price. We are more than willing to make our children's children pay for it though.

So perhaps my generation (and the foreseeable future generations) really doesn't care if our children have a better life than we do.

[SHOCKvalue]

I would be good with paid maternity leave if there was there was also Paid March Madness leave option also.

I know you are being light-hearted, but this is exactly my point. It is all discretionary. Why is your decision worth more than my own. It is all the same to the employer: a lost cog in the wheel.