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  • Supreme Court Could Weaken Federal Agencies

    And I'm here for it.

    KAKE - Supreme Court conservatives signal willingness to roll back the power of federal agencies

    The justices are hearing two cases concerning the so-called Chevron deference, which emerged from a 1984 case. Oral arguments in the first case went well beyond the allotted hour, with the conservatives signaling their willingness to overturn the decades-old case and their liberal colleagues sounding the alarm on how such a reversal would upend how the federal government enforces all kinds of regulations.

    Congress routinely writes open-ended, ambiguous laws that leave the policy details to agency officials. The Chevron deference stipulates that when disputes arise over regulation of an ambiguous law, judges should defer to agency interpretations, as long as the interpretations are reasonable.

    Justice Neil Gorsuch, a conservative who has long expressed misgivings about the Chevron deference, at one point boiled his understanding of the doctrine down to one simple outcome when courts examine ambiguous statutes under its terms: “The government always wins.”

    “Chevron is exploited against the individual and in favor of the government,” Gorsuch said.

    Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson underscored the concern from her and the two other liberals on the bench that overturning Chevron would force courts to make policy decisions that they say are better left for experts employed by federal agencies.

    “I see Chevron as doing the very important work of helping courts stay away from policymaking,” she said.
    I know libertarians have long taken issue with federal agencies dictating law/policy with no real oversight or accountability and change policy on a whim dependent upon who is in power. No enforceable law in which individuals are, or can be, punished or imprisoned by the federal government should be permitted without a public vote by those accountable to the people.

    Who knows if this will truly be ruled on in favor of the people over the feds, but hearing Gorsuch say what virtually all libertarians believe in this instance is encouraging.
    Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
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  • #2
    Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
    And I'm here for it.

    KAKE - Supreme Court conservatives signal willingness to roll back the power of federal agencies



    I know libertarians have long taken issue with federal agencies dictating law/policy with no real oversight or accountability and change policy on a whim dependent upon who is in power. No enforceable law in which individuals are, or can be, punished or imprisoned by the federal government should be permitted without a public vote by those accountable to the people.

    Who knows if this will truly be ruled on in favor of the people over the feds, but hearing Gorsuch say what virtually all libertarians believe in this instance is encouraging.
    I consider myself a Conservative, instead of a Libertarian, and in agreement with reigning in the powers of Independent Agencies who are under the Executive branch. Democrat Presidents and their Cabinet choices have continually attempted to increase the powers of these agencies since the 1960’s. Since then, and probably a little earlier (likely since President FDR and during the Depression when numbers of federal employees exploded), the Federal government has tried to increase their powers. I think that today, freedoms of Speech, Religion, and other freedoms mentioned in the Constitution (Bill of Rights) are being tested by the Democrat Party.

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    • #3
      I hope the Sup Court overturns the stupid Chevron deference principal. Why should courts defer to the interpretation of regulations by agencies?

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      • #4
        Good. The continual power grab by these agencies is ridiculous.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ABC View Post
          I hope the Sup Court overturns the stupid Chevron deference principal. Why should courts defer to the interpretation of regulations by agencies?
          I agree ABC. While I agree that some safety regulations are important when it comes to drugs, food, security, etc., you see just how powerful the Feds want to get (read the Covid and other threads),

          The FBI have targeted Catholics, parents, etc. just because they disagree with Biden's Administration.

          Here's another article (dealing with security).

          The FBI worked with banks (including Bank of America), to target key purchases/words like Bible purchases, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, Dick Sporting Goods, MAGA, etc. Just how many American citizens "Credit Cards" do these searches cover, and do they cover all terrorists or just the average citizen?

          At the request of the FBI, the country’s second-largest bank “voluntarily and without any legal process” snooped through the information of anyone making certain purchases

          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fe...an/ar-AA1n9tuk

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          • #6
            The SCOTUS has limited the power of Federal Independent Agencies. The Independent agencies now have less judicial powers, and will defer to the courts and Congress, much more than in the past.

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            • #7
              Its about time that federal agencies were no longer their own judge, jury, and executioners. Allowing these federal agencies to, in all practicality, write their own laws has long been outside of their constitutional authority. Glad to see them reigned in a little.
              Go Shocks!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Shockm View Post
                The SCOTUS has limited the power of Federal Independent Agencies. The Independent agencies now have less judicial powers, and will defer to the courts and Congress, much more than in the past.

                https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/pu...vron-deference
                Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ShockerDropOut View Post
                  Its about time that federal agencies were no longer their own judge, jury, and executioners. Allowing these federal agencies to, in all practicality, write their own laws has long been outside of their constitutional authority. Glad to see them reigned in a little.
                  No doubt. Over a lengthy period of time, the Executive Branch has become very powerful over American citizens lives. There is no way the Framers of the Constitution could have foreseen the evolution of American issues. Technology (like the combustible engine and the energy necessary to fuel the industry), Civil Rights, Immigration, Free Speech/Federal Eavesdropping, Nuclear issues, and many other regulations of our lives are now decided by unelected, unappointed, lawyers within the Executive branch. The other two branches need to have a role in this decision making over Americans lives.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                    No doubt. Over a lengthy period of time, the Executive Branch has become very powerful over American citizens lives. There is no way the Framers of the Constitution could have foreseen the evolution of American issues. Technology (like the combustible engine and the energy necessary to fuel the industry), Civil Rights, Immigration, Free Speech/Federal Eavesdropping, Nuclear issues, and many other regulations of our lives are now decided by unelected, unappointed, lawyers within the Executive branch. The other two branches need to have a role in this decision making over Americans lives.
                    More than any other agency, the EPA is most out of line with all of their mandates in the name of climate change. Many companies who draw tax payer dollars to develop energy saving devices may think twice before lining a politicians pocket to draw the big federal contracts. The chance of their ROI will be greatly reduced.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Atxshoxfan View Post

                      More than any other agency, the EPA is most out of line with all of their mandates in the name of climate change. Many companies who draw tax payer dollars to develop energy saving devices may think twice before lining a politicians pocket to draw the big federal contracts. The chance of their ROI will be greatly reduced.
                      No doubt you’re correct that the EPA has exploded in the past 10-20 years.

                      But it I was looking at the overall explosion of Executive Power, and numbers of additional employees who have expanded powers. Some powers such as the DOJ/FBI/CIA (Powers to bug American citizens phone communications)may even be necessary, because of rising terror threats.

                      However, to show how much change has happened, in 1901, we had 231,000 federal employees running our Presidential Cabinet Agencies. The largest explosions of federal employee numbers have happened during emergency times such as the Civil War, the Great Depression and WW2 (emergency times) when the country and its citizenry gave everything they had to “Win” the War, and had enormous unity during high risk, times. . Our Pentagon and military industrial complex grew a great amount during WW2.

                      Today we have more than 4 Million unelected and unappointed federal employees, and will never get smaller. The Federal government only grows.
                      Last edited by Shockm; June 30, 2024, 09:12 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                        No doubt. Over a lengthy period of time, the Executive Branch has become very powerful over American citizens lives. There is no way the Framers of the Constitution could have foreseen the evolution of American issues. Technology (like the combustible engine and the energy necessary to fuel the industry), Civil Rights, Immigration, Free Speech/Federal Eavesdropping, Nuclear issues, and many other regulations of our lives are now decided by unelected, unappointed, lawyers within the Executive branch. The other two branches need to have a role in this decision making over Americans lives.
                        To add to this, we need to repeal the 17th amendment and allow states to go back to appointing their senate representatives so that states actually have a voice as intended at the founding. There would be less power grabs if the states had rights again and representation. It's why we see so many states trying to push back on laws and edicts now because they have no other option than lawsuits rather than having actual representation.
                        Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                        RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                        Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                        ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                        Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                        Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post

                          To add to this, we need to repeal the 17th amendment and allow states to go back to appointing their senate representatives so that states actually have a voice as intended at the founding. There would be less power grabs if the states had rights again and representation. It's why we see so many states trying to push back on laws and edicts now because they have no other option than lawsuits rather than having actual representation.
                          The 17th Amendment issue is a somewhat different issue (states rights vs. Federal Power) than the balance of power of the 3 branches by unelected civilians (which because of this we have the state trans issues with the federal government bearing down on disagreement, etc.).

                          The idea behind that 17th Amendment was a good one (to give more direct power to the people to elect their Senators, instead of having Senators appointed by elected state Representatives) Maybe you are correct that the repeal of the 17th amendment would have the desired effect of limiting the Federal power, and instead boosting state power.

                          This is a Conservative talking point. However, I'm not as sure of the result as you are, because sometimes unintended and unforseen consequences occur, that we aren't able to predict. Perhaps Topeka lobbyists would be more powerful if this happened, and national lobbyists from Washington DC would possibly descend on Topeka (each states Capitol) to pay our legislature to appoint the Senator the lobbyists, and the interest groups who .

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                            The 17th Amendment issue is a somewhat different issue (states rights vs. Federal Power) than the balance of power of the 3 branches by unelected civilians (which because of this we have the state trans issues with the federal government bearing down on disagreement, etc.).

                            The idea behind that 17th Amendment was a good one (to give more direct power to the people to elect their Senators, instead of having Senators appointed by elected state Representatives) Maybe you are correct that the repeal of the 17th amendment would have the desired effect of limiting the Federal power, and instead boosting state power.

                            This is a Conservative talking point. However, I'm not as sure of the result as you are, because sometimes unintended and unforseen consequences occur, that we aren't able to predict. Perhaps Topeka lobbyists would be more powerful if this happened, and national lobbyists from Washington DC would possibly descend on Topeka (each states Capitol) to pay our legislature to appoint the Senator the lobbyists, and the interest groups who .
                            It's pretty obvious that states rights have diminished since the 17th amendment. The people were never meant to elect senators because then they're more susceptible to the pandering to people as opposed to working for the actual benefit and being a voice for the state. There's a reason the Founders didn't want the Senate being put together by the whims of the populace.

                            You call it a conservative talking point but I've seen very few so-called conservatives ever talk about it. Though they may be starting to now as you're seeing more and more states push back. The only places I ever see/hear this being talked about are amongst libertarians who are big on reigning in the power of DC. Most conservatives seem to like to power of DC, as long as it's focused on their issues as opposed to liberal issues.
                            Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                            RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                            Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                            ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                            Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                            Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

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                            • #15
                              Democracy survives, thanks to Trump’s SCOTUS appointments.

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