Shockernet Has Become Politically Polarized

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

The reason there are numerous labels is because not all democrats are centrists. Not all democrats are leftists. Not all democrats are progressive. Not all democrats are socialists. You need multiple labels to distinguish the multiple beliefs. They aren’t the same, but they all caucus together as democrats. This is how we establish nuance in the discussion.

No, it's how we separate and divide.

Parties have had numerous fractions since the beginning of the country. The Republicans have numerous fractions--Trumpers, tea party, Nazis (if you ask some I guess).

All groups have subtle nuances. But if we focus all on that, all we see is division.

[Shockm]

I'm not trying to divide but to inform people where the Democrat party seems to be headed with the Squad, and what Bernie, AOC, etc. are saying. While most Democrats don't buy into these ideas, the influence of Bernie, and AOC seem to be moving young Democrats in this direction.

Note: This is an opinion piece from conservative D'nesh D'Souza. If anyone has an article that describes Bernie's beliefs better, please bring it to us.

This is from a New York Post article. They describe Bernie, AOC, and the Squad's Socialist beliefs and that seem to follow Venezuela more than Sweden.

"As with the socialist Left here, Venezuelan socialism is based on demonizing the rich. Hugo Chavez openly boasted about expropriating the resources of successful entrepreneurs; indeed he was filmed taking their stores and businesses on his national television show.

No surprise — many business owners fled the country, creating many of the shortages of basic goods that now plague that country. What Chavez achieved through appropriation, the Democratic Left here would replicate through confiscatory taxation.

Venezuelan socialists are also identity socialists — marrying socialist economic programs and identity politics. Socialist activists in Venezuela pull down Columbus statues and blame inequality on the white man.

And Chavez, like some Democratic presidential candidates here, always highlighted his black and Native American roots. Once again, this sort of racially charged messaging is simply absent from the socialist policies that drive Scandinavian countries.

All the while, Venezuelan socialists are getting rich off socialism. The images we see on television of starving Venezuelans convey only half the truth. The reality is that the Chavistas — Venezuelans who are loyal to the socialist regime — are living high on the hog.

The current ruler Maduro goes on European soirees with his socialist top guard, and Hugo Chavez’s daughter is the richest woman in Venezuela with a net worth exceeding $1 billion.

Bottom line: The Left keeps telling us it wants to take us to Stockholm, but its policies point in the direction of Caracas.

Venezuela was once a prosperous country, but its divisive brand of socialism destroyed it. We can’t allow the same to happen here."


https://nypost.com/2020/06/20/democr...n-scandinavia/

It's interesting to me how Bernie has tended to demonize the rich and he, himself has multiple houses and is considered a wealthy person, even by American standards.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

No, it's how we separate and divide.

Parties have had numerous fractions since the beginning of the country. The Republicans have numerous fractions--Trumpers, tea party, Nazis (if you ask some I guess).

All groups have subtle nuances. But if we focus all on that, all we see is division.

Exactly! And note that even though Wufan may have a precise definition for what he thinks these factions are, the factions, in fact, are vague. Therefore you will have one heck of a time getting universal agreement around those labels.

For instance, some a teasipper may believe that if a person drinks ANY alcohol they have a drinking problem. An alcoholic in denial might draw the line as falling down drunk every night.

We have conservatives in this board who are in denial about who they really are. They think they are garden variety republicans, but they are in denial that they might be coming across as John Birchers. We have people who don't think they are liberals that are in denial and someone might think they are socialists.

Also note that this changes depending on what part of the country you are in. A conservative in NY might be a garden-variety moderate republican, in Texas the same republican might be viewed as a RINO or even liberalish, while a liberal (AOC) would be considered straight-up socialist in my part of the country. BTW, I agree she is a straight-up socialist, pretty much from the Hugo Chavez mold, meaning there is a high probability she will become a kleptocrat at some point if she is not retired.

And ironically, there is a kook in Bexar county who buys into Q-Anon theories, but she is the party chair (she lost but is not accepting the results of the election). Either a majority of republicans in Bexar county at the time she was elected bought into her kookiness OR they were asleep at the switch.

Either way, it makes the republican party in south texas look just as bad in my mind as what many of you think of a typical garden-variety liberal (at least according to Sedgwick County, Kansas standards).

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Exactly! And note that even though Wufan may have a precise definition for what he thinks these factions are, the factions, in fact, are vague. Therefore you will have one heck of a time getting universal agreement around those labels.

For instance, some a teasipper may believe that if a person drinks ANY alcohol they have a drinking problem. An alcoholic in denial might draw the line as falling down drunk every night.

We have conservatives in this board who are in denial about who they really are. They think they are garden variety republicans, but they are in denial that they might be coming across as John Birchers. We have people who don't think they are liberals that are in denial and someone might think they are socialists.

Also note that this changes depending on what part of the country you are in. A conservative in NY might be a garden-variety moderate republican, in Texas the same republican might be viewed as a RINO or even liberalish, while a liberal (AOC) would be considered straight-up socialist in my part of the country. BTW, I agree she is a straight-up socialist, pretty much from the Hugo Chavez mold, meaning there is a high probability she will become a kleptocrat at some point if she is not retired.

And ironically, there is a kook in Bexar county who buys into Q-Anon theories, but she is the party chair (she lost but is not accepting the results of the election). Either a majority of republicans in Bexar county at the time she was elected bought into her kookiness OR they were asleep at the switch.

Either way, it makes the republican party in south texas look just as bad in my mind as what many of you think of a typical garden-variety liberal (at least according to Sedgwick County, Kansas standards).

I hear ya. I joined this discussion talking about how my conservative friends think I'm a raging liberal and my liberal friends think I'm a gun-totin' redneck. It's because I think both sides are right and both sides are wrong, and my ideas and beliefs match some on both sides. So if you look at me through a conservative lens, I tend to appear liberal--and vice versa.

So we throw rocks at each other, call each other names, try to bifurcate and split hairs in the name of "nuance", when in reality most of us aren't strictly in one of those nuanced camps. Some of us aren't even really one side or the other.

I grew up in Kansas and I'm well aware it's a deep red state. So I expect to see lots of conservative opinion when I open up a thread on this forum. But I don't expect to see the absolute trashing of Democrats and anything non-Republican. Some threads feel like reading meeting minutes of the John Birch society.

With that said, there's probably the same thing going on in the University of Oregon message board political forum, but from the opposite spectrum.

And that's what I'm trying to get at. This is really sad, folks.

Look at what we're doing to each other and to ourselves.

[Walker]

NCAA doesn't want to be left out and will ensure that they can make college sports just as polarizing as professional sports with this:

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that only the woke messages will be allowed and messages like "all lives matter", "blue lives matter", "taxation is theft" or any pro-life message won't be allowed.

I'd be just fine with no message patches and just getting back to sports and having that awesome common ground despite our differences like we used to but these corporations and organizations won't allow it. It all really feels coordinated. I think division and demorilization is the ultimate goal and unfortunately it's working. I really don't want sports to be cancelled due to the pandemic, but the silverlining if it were to be, is that we would be spared from this insufferable nonsense being shoved down our throats every time we watch a game.

[wufan]

Exactly! And note that even though Wufan may have a precise definition for what he thinks these factions are, the factions, in fact, are vague. Therefore you will have one heck of a time getting universal agreement around those labels.

True. We need to be precise in our terms. This is something the Critical Race Theory folks are trying to make even more vague.

We have conservatives in this board who are in denial about who they really are. They think they are garden variety republicans, but they are in denial that they might be coming across as John Birchers. We have people who don't think they are liberals that are in denial and someone might think they are socialists.

If you can’t be precise, why are you labeling people?

[wufan]

No, it's how we separate and divide.

Parties have had numerous fractions since the beginning of the country. The Republicans have numerous fractions--Trumpers, tea party, Nazis (if you ask some I guess).

All groups have subtle nuances. But if we focus all on that, all we see is division.

I disagree. It’s the critical race theory folks that are actively redefining terms such that it makes it difficult to discern if someone is talking about you or is talking about someone you disagree with. They make it confusing to identify ideologically with one group or another and easy to identify with what they view as the most important characteristic; race.

[MoValley John]

No, it's how we separate and divide.

Parties have had numerous fractions since the beginning of the country. The Republicans have numerous fractions--Trumpers, tea party, Nazis (if you ask some I guess).

All groups have subtle nuances. But if we focus all on that, all we see is division.

I dont see the problem. I never voted for Trump, I voted for Gary Johnson. I showed up on election day 2016 knowing I had already lost. I expected to spend four, possibly eight years with Hillary Clinton as president. I fully expected it. I fully accepted it as well.

I laughed when it didn't happen. I also saw the immediate uncontrollable meltdown on the left, the Democratic Party, the MSM, Google, Twitter, Hollywood, and many people you would consider moderate Democrats. That one shining moment, there was lock step unity in all factions that supported Hillary to RESIST! Pink ***** hats were made, Starbucks windows were smashed, reporters openly wept on TV, marches, almost daily occurred. The guy hadn't even eaten his first piece of cake from his first inaugural party yet.

I warned back then what would happen if the behavior from the losing side didn't change. For that, even though I didn't vote for him, by not falling lock step in the resistance movement, I was labeled a Trump supporter. JD took me to task almost daily. So did others. I couldn't believe that I was suddenly lumped in with Trump just because I accepted the results of the election.

Four years later we have people lamenting the namecalling, labeling and divide? Look in the mirror people! We get what we deserve. We got Trump, and we might get a washed up, senile, hair sniffing Biden. I may or may not like it if Biden wins, but I will accept it. I won't set fires, loot, break windows, threaten to move to Canada, rip hats off of people's heads or anything else. Should Biden win, I hope those that supported Trump don't mistake my lack of protest for that of a Biden supporter.

[wufan]

I dont see the problem. I never voted for Trump, I voted for Gary Johnson. I showed up on election day 2016 knowing I had already lost. I expected to spend four, possibly eight years with Hillary Clinton as president. I fully expected it. I fully accepted it as well.

I laughed when it didn't happen. I also saw the immediate uncontrollable meltdown on the left, the Democratic Party, the MSM, Google, Twitter, Hollywood, and many people you would consider moderate Democrats. That one shining moment, there was lock step unity in all factions that supported Hillary to RESIST! Pink ***** hats were made, Starbucks windows were smashed, reporters openly wept on TV, marches, almost daily occurred. The guy hadn't even eaten his first piece of cake from his first inaugural party yet.

I warned back then what would happen if the behavior from the losing side didn't change. For that, even though I didn't vote for him, by not falling lock step in the resistance movement, I was labeled a Trump supporter. JD took me to task almost daily. So did others. I couldn't believe that I was suddenly lumped in with Trump just because I accepted the results of the election.

Four years later we have people lamenting the namecalling, labeling and divide? Look in the mirror people! We get what we deserve. We got Trump, and we might get a washed up, senile, hair sniffing Biden. I may or may not like it if Biden wins, but I will accept it. I won't set fires, loot, break windows, threaten to move to Canada, rip hats off of people's heads or anything else. Should Biden win, I hope those that supported Trump don't mistake my lack of protest for that of a Biden supporter.

This is exactly my experience as well.

[ShockTalk]

I dont see the problem. I never voted for Trump, I voted for Gary Johnson. I showed up on election day 2016 knowing I had already lost. I expected to spend four, possibly eight years with Hillary Clinton as president. I fully expected it. I fully accepted it as well.

I laughed when it didn't happen. I also saw the immediate uncontrollable meltdown on the left, the Democratic Party, the MSM, Google, Twitter, Hollywood, and many people you would consider moderate Democrats. That one shining moment, there was lock step unity in all factions that supported Hillary to RESIST! Pink ***** hats were made, Starbucks windows were smashed, reporters openly wept on TV, marches, almost daily occurred. The guy hadn't even eaten his first piece of cake from his first inaugural party yet.

I warned back then what would happen if the behavior from the losing side didn't change. For that, even though I didn't vote for him, by not falling lock step in the resistance movement, I was labeled a Trump supporter. JD took me to task almost daily. So did others. I couldn't believe that I was suddenly lumped in with Trump just because I accepted the results of the election.

Four years later we have people lamenting the namecalling, labeling and divide? Look in the mirror people! We get what we deserve. We got Trump, and we might get a washed up, senile, hair sniffing Biden. I may or may not like it if Biden wins, but I will accept it. I won't set fires, loot, break windows, threaten to move to Canada, rip hats off of people's heads or anything else. Should Biden win, I hope those that supported Trump don't mistake my lack of protest for that of a Biden supporter.

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. I could have just as easily written the same exact thing, just not as well.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

I dont see the problem. I never voted for Trump, I voted for Gary Johnson. I showed up on election day 2016 knowing I had already lost. I expected to spend four, possibly eight years with Hillary Clinton as president. I fully expected it. I fully accepted it as well.

I laughed when it didn't happen. I also saw the immediate uncontrollable meltdown on the left, the Democratic Party, the MSM, Google, Twitter, Hollywood, and many people you would consider moderate Democrats. That one shining moment, there was lock step unity in all factions that supported Hillary to RESIST! Pink ***** hats were made, Starbucks windows were smashed, reporters openly wept on TV, marches, almost daily occurred. The guy hadn't even eaten his first piece of cake from his first inaugural party yet.

I warned back then what would happen if the behavior from the losing side didn't change. For that, even though I didn't vote for him, by not falling lock step in the resistance movement, I was labeled a Trump supporter. JD took me to task almost daily. So did others. I couldn't believe that I was suddenly lumped in with Trump just because I accepted the results of the election.

Four years later we have people lamenting the namecalling, labeling and divide? Look in the mirror people! We get what we deserve. We got Trump, and we might get a washed up, senile, hair sniffing Biden. I may or may not like it if Biden wins, but I will accept it. I won't set fires, loot, break windows, threaten to move to Canada, rip hats off of people's heads or anything else. Should Biden win, I hope those that supported Trump don't mistake my lack of protest for that of a Biden supporter.

Yep. If you voted for Trump or if you decided to accept the results and move on, you were labeled a racist, bigot, misogynist, etc. Then, many said, even before the election that if you are a woman and you didn't vote for Hillary that you are to be shamed. Just like they are now saying that if you are African American and you don't vote for Biden, you are to be shamed. Biden himself alluded to this! Now, you hear the Democrats crying that Trump won't accept the elections results or leave office (which he has denied he would do) if he loses the election. How ironic that they would say this right? The Democrats have been the great dividers in this country the last four years and now they want to cry foul? Rich, real rich.

[ShockerPrez]

It's just funny that when the Republicans finally get someone into office that doesn't bend over and take it, there's magically an issue with unity in this country. Cops magically started shooting unarmed black men en masse, the system is racist everywhere (yet we need to fake hate crimes), nazis everywhere, speech is now violence, inaction is violence, conservatives being invited to speak somewhere is not permitted, federal agents sent in to keep people from burning down a federal building are the secret fascist police, etc, etc ,etc.

Why would anyone want to stop global warming from killing us? Let's just get it over with.

On 2nd thought, my life seems to be just fine. Hopefully all of yours are too. Maybe, just maybe, the people with the voices are overplaying their hand and finally getting to the point where their hyperbolic speak is getting outrageously hyperbolic. But I just can't decide why, and not 100% convinced it isn't backfiring in their face.

Let's just agree that at least on Shockernet we are all not crazy. Regardless of what we believe the government should do and at the end of the day, if we were neighbors, we'd help each other out and want the best for each other and our families.

I think that is the case. Our politicians are garbage, and an insult on a politician should not be taken as an offense to you.

[B1ShockFan]

What is sad is how the country is now divided by hate, largely due to our political system. The two parties have always had their differences but they use to work together and negotiate something they all could somewhat live with. Now nothing gets passed and all blame the other side for the failure and then spout off to the news networks to further divide the country. This "my way or the highway" thought process seems to have totally got out of control over the last two or three centuries and I see no chance of it getting much better. Hate will/can destroy our country. We need to establish term limits for politicians, we are represented by to many fat cats who just want to get fatter.

[wufan]

Yep. If you voted for Trump or if you decided to accept the results and move on, you were labeled a racist, bigot, misogynist, etc. Then, many said, even before the election that if you are a woman and you didn't vote for Hillary that you are to be shamed. Just like they are now saying that if you are African American and you don't vote for Biden, you are to be shamed. Biden himself alluded to this! Now, you hear the Democrats crying that Trump won't accept the elections results or leave office (which he has denied he would do) if he loses the election. How ironic that they would say this right? The Democrats have been the great dividers in this country the last four years and now they want to cry foul? Rich, real rich.

“Basket of Deplorables”

If your black and you ain’t votin for Joe Biden, then well then you ain’t black”

[wufan]

It's just funny that when the Republicans finally get someone into office that doesn't bend over and take it, there's magically an issue with unity in this country. Cops magically started shooting unarmed black men en masse, the system is racist everywhere (yet we need to fake hate crimes), nazis everywhere, speech is now violence, inaction is violence, conservatives being invited to speak somewhere is not permitted, federal agents sent in to keep people from burning down a federal building are the secret fascist police, etc, etc ,etc.

Why would anyone want to stop global warming from killing us? Let's just get it over with.

On 2nd thought, my life seems to be just fine. Hopefully all of yours are too. Maybe, just maybe, the people with the voices are overplaying their hand and finally getting to the point where their hyperbolic speak is getting outrageously hyperbolic. But I just can't decide why, and not 100% convinced it isn't backfiring in their face.

Let's just agree that at least on Shockernet we are all not crazy. Regardless of what we believe the government should do and at the end of the day, if we were neighbors, we'd help each other out and want the best for each other and our families.

I think that is the case. Our politicians are garbage, and an insult on a politician should not be taken as an offense to you.

It was actually 2010 when we started seeing this. You can search work usage changes in media and there is a hockey stick of intersectionalism. Trump was just the response.