Shockernet Has Become Politically Polarized

[Stickboy46]

Same solution.

In an ideal world to me, we would find a way to return all of these positions back to what they were intended to be in the first place... A public servant. It should have never turned into a career path. My radical solution that would never happen is that once you run for public office, your financial records for the rest of your life become public record. If you are found at any point to have taken money for anything in your time in office, you are tried for treason.

Granted there are likely 1000s of ways people would try to get around that but that's the spirit of the idea. Serving should mean sacrifice for the public good.. Not to enrich yourself.

/Rant

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I mostly avoid the politics forum these days, though I occasionally lurk (hence my post today). The reason I stay away, to echo the concerns of the OP, is it seems to me to be a circle jerk of ultra-conservative opinion and posts.

I say that and want to emphasize that I was a reliable Republican voter for 20 years. I changed my voter affiliation to independent last year. I can't stand what Trump has done to the Republican Party, though it was trending radical right for awhile. It's fair to say the Democratic Party has been trending left for awhile.

At any rate, I consider myself middle of the road on most issues. To illustrate what is happening to Shockernet and to our society in general, most of my conservative friends (and probably many of you on this forum who remember when I was highly active) consider me a raging liberal to the point some call me a "socialist", and most of my liberal friends who appreciate my disdain for Trump also consider me a traitor because I don't fall completely in line with progressive policies.

It's very difficult to be a centrist right now in America and on this forum.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

I mostly avoid the politics forum these days, though I occasionally lurk (hence my post today). The reason I stay away, to echo the concerns of the OP, is it seems to me to be a circle jerk of ultra-conservative opinion and posts.

I say that and want to emphasize that I was a reliable Republican voter for 20 years. I changed my voter affiliation to independent last year. I can't stand what Trump has done to the Republican Party, though it was trending radical right for awhile. It's fair to say the Democratic Party has been trending left for awhile.

At any rate, I consider myself middle of the road on most issues. To illustrate what is happening to Shockernet and to our society in general, most of my conservative friends (and probably many of you on this forum who remember when I was highly active) consider me a raging liberal to the point some call me a "socialist", and most of my liberal friends who appreciate my disdain for Trump also consider me a traitor because I don't fall completely in line with progressive policies.

It's very difficult to be a centrist right now in America and on this forum.

Very well put, sir. I consider myself to be middle of the road as well. Probably a little to the left of you, but I have (and do) vote for Republicans, just haven't (and won't) as long as the Trump Tea Party wing of the Republican party is in charge.

But back to your point, you are spot on. This blog seems to have become a home (and an echo chamber) to the ultra-conservative (I'd almost say John Birch) Republicans.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

I had a guy in a nonprofit board meeting yesterday say that the staff needed to prepare two forecasts. One that we would use in the event of a Biden win, in which we would be preparing to deal with massive civil unrest, depression, and the likely event of the 100 year old organization existing only in survival mode as the country "may not survive." The other budget based on a Trump reelection, which would entail hockey stick growth and warrant all the capital spending we could undertake. I've been serving in this organization for nearly two decades and I have seen some politics only on the margins, but everyone has always been rowing the same direction. This organization and country survived and thrived through two world wars, two red scares (1917 is very reminiscent of the times), 1968 and 9/11/2001. I think we'll survive a Biden presidency or a 2nd Trump term.

Call me crazy.

You need to remember you are in the heart of conservative country.

I'm going to say that no matter what happens, we are going to have carnage in the economy, won't matter whether it is Biden or Trump. For several reasons:

• We have thrown trillions of dollars at this pandemic (and rightly so). Funding needs to catch up to the deficits. That means higher taxes.
• All the big banks have been calling an economic downturn for the last couple of years. Big banks pay big money to superstar economists and mathematic models to analyze so that they can manage risk effectively. For instance, loan underwriting, remember that news item about credit resiliency scoring? I know banks are calling for increased defaults across the board, as soon as the next quarter (or perhaps earlier if congress does not pass another stimulus package).
• Economy is being propped up by this deficit spending, which will have to cease (because we cannot afford it). The current state of our economy is illusory and reality will set in as soon as the money stops flowing.

What you are seeing are probably the documented thoughts of a conservative republican bod (which would be logical, given your location). They aren't seeing the entire picture, but in the event Trump gets re-elected all this will happen anyway. This is not a criticism of the political makeup of your bod, more just a statement of fact.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Very well put, sir. I consider myself to be middle of the road as well. Probably a little to the left of you, but I have (and do) vote for Republicans, just haven't (and won't) as long as the Trump Tea Party wing of the Republican party is in charge.

But back to your point, you are spot on. This blog seems to have become a home (and an echo chamber) to the ultra-conservative (I'd almost say John Birch) Republicans.

I haven't navigated to the gun control thread, but the national debate is a great example of what's happening.

In reality, there are two extremes to the issue: far right, which would be no laws restricting gun ownership or usage, and far left, which would be a repeal of the 2nd amendment and a ban on all firearms. Yet, somehow the narrative has been hijacked to the point many conservatives believe any law or effort to restrict ownership or usage is a liberal conspiracy to take away their guns. I am a gun owner and a second amendment supporter, but I also believe in passing responsible gun laws to help to keep firearms out of the hands of lunatics, kids, etc. But to many conservatives, this is blasphemy and I am a liberal foaming at the mouth to take their guns away.

How can any society govern itself with this kind of extremist ideology taking hold? What happened to rational thought? What happened to compromise?

[Shockm]

You need to remember you are in the heart of conservative country.

I'm going to say that no matter what happens, we are going to have carnage in the economy, won't matter whether it is Biden or Trump. For several reasons:

• We have thrown trillions of dollars at this pandemic (and rightly so). Funding needs to catch up to the deficits. That means higher taxes.
• All the big banks have been calling an economic downturn for the last couple of years. Big banks pay big money to superstar economists and mathematic models to analyze so that they can manage risk effectively. For instance, loan underwriting, remember that news item about credit resiliency scoring? I know banks are calling for increased defaults across the board, as soon as the next quarter (or perhaps earlier if congress does not pass another stimulus package).
• Economy is being propped up by this deficit spending, which will have to cease (because we cannot afford it). The current state of our economy is illusory and reality will set in as soon as the money stops flowing.

What you are seeing are probably the documented thoughts of a conservative republican bod (which would be logical, given your location). They aren't seeing the entire picture, but in the event Trump gets re-elected all this will happen anyway. This is not a criticism of the political makeup of your bod, more just a statement of fact.

You threw a lot of barbs that somewhat demeaning to conservatives including "tea party" conservatives (I'm not in total agreement with "tea party" conservatives although I agree with some). I would have preferred that Obama follow through on the bipartisan commission that he started during his Presidency to reduce the deficit (Simpson, etc.), but he disbanded them because he wanted to spend more than they recommended.

However, back to your list of what's current in the economy. The economy is being propped up by spending, Things do need to change. Less spending does need to happen imo. and it sounds like you would agree on that.

Some things that Biden and Democrats (Bernie has been leading and many seem to be agreeing) seem to be on the bandwagon for include: These are legitimate questions and not meant to be a gotcha moment.

1. Nationalized Health Care (this would increase medicaid, and put Senior Medicare in a problem waiting in line for health care, and from the European model, it would go much worse).
2. Giving all illegal aliens already here in America, help with social welfare programs, medicare, medicaid, school aide, etc. which would drive up costs considerably.
3. All illegal aliens becoming legal aliens which would drive up welfare costs considerably.
4. Open Borders which would bring even more poor citizens from other countries because of the social welfare programs they can plug into immediately
5. The Green New Deal which would put an end to jobs from the energy industry that we already have in favor of alternative energy programs that may be pipe dreams.

There are other things that will add to costs to the middle class besides these. Again, these are not meant as barbs but asking legitimate questions that need to be answered

[wufan]

I come up centrist in every test I take. Not seeing the right wing thing here.

What would you say are the conservative values being expressed?

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Seems to be a lot of whining going on. Anyone complaining about the record GDP growth, meteoric rise in the stock market, gains in the real estate market, leveling of the trade landscape, record employment, dramatic increase in wages, tax cuts, etc under Trump?

Now, this can all be put on pause given the pandemic that hit early in the year, but by an large, we have all prospered.

Continue the conservative bashing...

[ShockTalk]

I haven't navigated to the gun control thread, but the national debate is a great example of what's happening.

In reality, there are two extremes to the issue: far right, which would be no laws restricting gun ownership or usage, and far left, which would be a repeal of the 2nd amendment and a ban on all firearms. Yet, somehow the narrative has been hijacked to the point many conservatives believe any law or effort to restrict ownership or usage is a liberal conspiracy to take away their guns. I am a gun owner and a second amendment supporter, but I also believe in passing responsible gun laws to help to keep firearms out of the hands of lunatics, kids, etc. But to many conservatives, this is blasphemy and I am a liberal foaming at the mouth to take their guns away.

How can any society govern itself with this kind of extremist ideology taking hold? What happened to rational thought? What happened to compromise?

I have been a life-long Republican, totally agree with your position on gun law, and, most of all, totally agree with you on the far right/far left problem. Last election was the first time I remember not voting for the Republican candidate (voted for McMillian as a protest vote). I do not believe any of the right or far rights on this forum would approve of letting the extreme groups on the right run rampant as the left is letting theirs. This is disconcerting to me. I cannot support any candidate whose backers allow what is going on in city streets these days, particularly when that candidate has difficulty making a coherent statement (just who would the puppet masters be) (can I even say puppet "master").

[ShockerFever]

I haven't navigated to the gun control thread, but the national debate is a great example of what's happening.

In reality, there are two extremes to the issue: far right, which would be no laws restricting gun ownership or usage, and far left, which would be a repeal of the 2nd amendment and a ban on all firearms. Yet, somehow the narrative has been hijacked to the point many conservatives believe any law or effort to restrict ownership or usage is a liberal conspiracy to take away their guns. I am a gun owner and a second amendment supporter, but I also believe in passing responsible gun laws to help to keep firearms out of the hands of lunatics, kids, etc. But to many conservatives, this is blasphemy and I am a liberal foaming at the mouth to take their guns away.

How can any society govern itself with this kind of extremist ideology taking hold? What happened to rational thought? What happened to compromise?

I would say you're not as close to the middle as you think you are.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

I have been a life-long Republican, totally agree with your position on gun law, and, most of all, totally agree with you on the far right/far left problem. Last election was the first time I remember not voting for the Republican candidate (voted for McMillian as a protest vote). I do not believe any of the right or far rights on this forum would approve of letting the extreme groups on the right run rampant as the left is letting theirs. This is disconcerting to me. I cannot support any candidate whose backers allow what is going on in city streets these days, particularly when that candidate has difficulty making a coherent statement (just who would the puppet masters be) (can I even say puppet "master").

That is exactly right. No way the GOP leadership would allow the extremist far far far right to take a hold of the entire party agenda like the left has. Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler, Biden et al. have cowered to these radicals and turned a blind eye to this extremism out of fear. Now, you want to talk about a lack of leadership, that is case in point right there. No spine. If they were leaders, they would tell these groups to stand down. Let them have their time to explain there positions and listen, but ultimately you need to do what is right for the majority of your base. Instead, they are so afraid of these groups that they just let them run everything. It will be REALLY scary if sleepy joe gets elected. He will basically be the de facto President with the far far left progressive groups controlling the agenda.

[pinstripers]

Sometimes I wonder if Black Americans are offended that their push for racial justice has been taken over by leftist loon domestic terrorists.......

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

I have been a life-long Republican, totally agree with your position on gun law, and, most of all, totally agree with you on the far right/far left problem. Last election was the first time I remember not voting for the Republican candidate (voted for McMillian as a protest vote). I do not believe any of the right or far rights on this forum would approve of letting the extreme groups on the right run rampant as the left is letting theirs. This is disconcerting to me. I cannot support any candidate whose backers allow what is going on in city streets these days, particularly when that candidate has difficulty making a coherent statement (just who would the puppet masters be) (can I even say puppet "master").

Remember the Naval Academy grad who got worked over by the unmarked DHS folks (and had his hand get badly broken)? He was there, as a veteran, because he thinks those people have a right to peacefully protest. So it's pretty obvious to me that there are excesses on both sides.

Not only that, seems like the Minneapolis police identified the first looter that started the Floyd riots - a white supremacist carrying an umbrella who broke windows at a auto parts store and helped himself to merchandise. That's also a concern of mine. But i will say, let the peaceful folks protest (even though I am way past tired of it) and jail the lawbreakers. No matter who they are. I'm just not convinced that all of the looters are from one side nor can I quantify how many are left vs. right. It would be interesting if we could get a breakdown of looters arrested and find out exactly who they are. If we had that information, I could get behind what you are saying, though.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

Seems to be a lot of whining going on. Anyone complaining about the record GDP growth, meteoric rise in the stock market, gains in the real estate market, leveling of the trade landscape, record employment, dramatic increase in wages, tax cuts, etc under Trump?

Now, this can all be put on pause given the pandemic that hit early in the year, but by an large, we have all prospered.

Continue the conservative bashing...

I'm guessing you are represented by well-educated, articulate representation as opposed to someone like Goofy Gohmert. You should consider yourself lucky.

[ShockerPrez]

What defines right, left or centrist? Obviously it has to be in the context of a topic, but to me, if you are for the status quo, that is the epitome of a centrist. If you want something changed, then you classify in what you want it changed. But I think the terms far right and far left get tossed around without any context or explanation of why.

What defines the far right in gun control? What if someone just thinks there doesn't need to be any new gun laws made? They are fine with just keeping the status quo. We have background checks, you can't buy an automatic weapon and 30 round magazines are fine. Is that a radical far right position? Because I don't think it's a far right position, CNN would say it is. If you want to eliminate laws on guns, you are right wing, if you want more laws restricting it, you are left wing.

Immigration. What is the radical right position? Deporting people here illegally? Not wanting people in this country illegally to have the same rights as citizens, ie benefits? I'm guessing some would say that is a radically right wing position. Having a goal of no additional illegal immigrants coming into the country would classify as a radical right wing position to CNN.

Healthcare. Having a single payer system run by the government is the radically left wing position in my opinion. What is the radically right wing position? No medicare or medicaid?

I guess my point is that I am not sure what defines the radically right wing position in some cases, but I hear it a lot. When people talk about radically right and radically left, I believe you have to point to a specific bill or platform that changes the law in either direction. Keeping the status quo is not radically right or radically left, that is the centrist position. If you want to change the law, you are either moving it right or left. If the only proposal is to move something to the left, and it is opposed, The opposition my be right wing, but the stance is purely centrist as it is the current law. To me, that is the centrist position. It may have used to be the right wing or left wing position, but wanting to keep it in place, now makes it a centrist position.

Same thing goes for a bill changing the law to be more right wing.

Is that how everyone else feels?