Sub's Alternative Energy Thread

[Kung Wu]

I may be totally off the mark, but I think plug-in hybrid vehicles are immensely more practical for mass adoption than full EVs, at least once they start getting up to 40-60 miles of EV-only range. That would put them within the vast majority of urban and suburban commuter's two-way daily commute, with some room to spare for wind and weather (which can greatly affect batteries). In that scenario, even a full-size SUV would use only about 6 kWh. At 10.5¢ per kWh, that's just 63¢ a day. A gas SUV getting 20 MPG would instead need 2 gallons of gas for the same 40 mile commute, or about $7.00.

But for long-range driving? The plug-in hybrid just fills up the tank, using our awesome preexisting infrastructure. And it gets 35-40 MPG as a regular old hybrid along the way. With a 15 gallon tank, it can go 600 miles and only needs the usual fill-up time to get back on the road, beating both the gas SUV and its EV equivalent. And unlike a 'regular' hybrid, the plug-in isn't limited to a dinky low horsepower CVT engine. It can combine actual electric motors to get far more instant torque and overall HP when combined with the gas engine.

Aside from current cost, extreme lack of availability, and the fun of manual engines, they just seem like the best of all worlds to me. Faster, more efficient, better at towing, less maintenance, and no need to fill up weekly at the gas station.

All fair. A couple additional points:

- The complexity of a hybrid comes with higher costs of repair and maintenance, and therefore total cost of ownership.

That said, the hybrid does seem like a reasonable transition technology until there is a massive breakthrough in battery tech.


Other thoughts regarding the push for EV ...

- The price of electricity is going to SKYROCKET as more and more EVs come online -- and therefore our home electric bills will skyrocket as well -- the true cost comparison will require combining the cost of electricity for your vehicle PLUS increased cost of home electric bills due to EV adoption.

- Plan on lots of increased electrical grid outages in the future.

- Terrorists and/or enemies wishing to attack the U.S. will be able to easily shut down our transportation infrastructure with EMPs or by destroying key targets of the electrical grid.

[RoyalShock]

How Often You Have To Charge An Electric Car: Purchase with Confidence – The Plugin Report


Level 3 / DC Fast Charge: These are special charging stations typically located in public places and rest stops. Every 30 minutes of charging equals approximately 90 miles of travel distance. Only fully battery electric vehicles are able to use the fast charge systems.

I've watched a couple of videos of Ford F-150 Lightning test drives. When they have stopped at those fast charging stations, they get to about an 80-85% charge in a reasonable amount of time, but the efficiency seems to slow down and it takes much longer to squeeze in anything above 90%. It's not noticeable if you charge overnight, but making a pit stop won't get you real far down the road without a time penalty.

[WstateU]

I've watched a couple of videos of Ford F-150 Lightning test drives. When they have stopped at those fast charging stations, they get to about an 80-85% charge in a reasonable amount of time, but the efficiency seems to slow down and it takes much longer to squeeze in anything above 90%. It's not noticeable if you charge overnight, but making a pit stop won't get you real far down the road without a time penalty.

Sounds like charging my iPhone… quick charges don’t get me far.

[Kung Wu]

The price of electricity is going to SKYROCKET as more and more EVs come online -- and therefore our home electric bills will skyrocket as well -- the true cost comparison will require combining the cost of electricity for your vehicle PLUS increased cost of home electric bills due to EV adoption.

Actually, now that I think about it, in an EV world you are going to pay for other people's transportation expenses whether you like it or not. Your home electricity prices are going to shoot through the roof, whether you have a vehicle or not.

In a gasoline world, you are only paying for exactly what YOU use, not sharing the expenses for what everyone ELSE uses.

Maybe now I fully understand why the socialists are pushing so hard for electrical -- because it socializes transportation expenses in the form of shared travel and home costs.

This does not pass the mountain man philosophy.

[wufan]

Actually, now that I think about it, in an EV world you are going to pay for other people's transportation expenses whether you like it or not. Your home electricity prices are going to shoot through the roof, whether you have a vehicle or not.

In a gasoline world, you are only paying for exactly what YOU use, not sharing the expenses for what everyone ELSE uses.

Maybe now I fully understand why the socialists are pushing so hard for electrical -- because it socializes transportation expenses in the form of shared travel and home costs.

This does not pass the mountain man philosophy.

Easy solution is that you charge them at the outlet. Not sure Chancellor Biden would approve, but you have a problem, I have a solution.

[WuDrWu]

I am not sure. I never thought I would get phone calls on my watch or emails on my phone. I am 73 and won't see the technology I'm my life but my kids or their kids will.

I just bought my first hybrid. On my 4th tang of gas. Enjoying the 36+MPG in town.

That baby runs on Tang?!! I guess when I heard the astronauts took it to the moon, I assumed they drank it. Who knew it powered their trip?

I love Tang, I'm buying it anyway so I guess there's a double use now.

[WstateU]

That baby runs on Tang?!! I guess when I heard the astronauts took it to the moon, I assumed they drank it. Who knew it powered their trip?

I love Tang, I'm buying it anyway so I guess there's a double use now.

Poontang… sorry, can’t help meself.

[WuDrWu]

Comanche Indian.


Bye.

[shoxtop]

Actually, now that I think about it, in an EV world you are going to pay for other people's transportation expenses whether you like it or not. Your home electricity prices are going to shoot through the roof, whether you have a vehicle or not.

In a gasoline world, you are only paying for exactly what YOU use, not sharing the expenses for what everyone ELSE uses.

Maybe now I fully understand why the socialists are pushing so hard for electrical -- because it socializes transportation expenses in the form of shared travel and home costs.

This does not pass the mountain man philosophy.

I’ve been waiting for the day that the right media realizes that evs have a disparate impact on the poor. How will the SJWs compensate for that additional $/kwh? Oh that’s right, they’ll just pull the entire energy and transportation sectors under government control. Continuing the endless cycle of “solving” the problems they created….

[Kung Wu]

I’ve been waiting for the day that the right media realizes that evs have a disparate impact on the poor. How will the SJWs compensate for that additional $/kwh? Oh that’s right, they’ll just pull the entire energy and transportation sectors under government control. Continuing the endless cycle of “solving” the problems they created….

They'll start rationing electricity -- you won't have control over your own thermostat at some point and can probably expect regularly planned outages: https://www.instituteforenergyresear...ity-rationing/

[wufan]

They'll start rationing electricity -- you won't have control over your own thermostat at some point and can probably expect regularly planned outages: https://www.instituteforenergyresear...ity-rationing/

This is the sad truth. Cheap reliable energy begets wealth and prosperity.

[pinstripers]

Ryan Fournier @RyanAFournier

Russia has indefinitely suspended the operations of the Nordstream pipeline. Europe is screwed.

[SubGod22]

I've often wondered why hydrogen powered vehicles haven't gotten more exposure. I don't know all of the specifics about them or cost effectiveness, but I remember reading about work on hydrogen powered cars back when I was in HS. We now have some hydrogen powered trains.

World's First 100% Hydrogen-Powered Trains Now Running Regional Service in Germany to Replace Diesel

A regional train operator in Germany is becoming the first company to utilize 100% hydrogen fuel cell trains on their lines.

But if almost all train travel is electric now, and even those few diesel trains that still operate produce a mere third of the CO2 per passenger as a car, what’s the need for big investment into hydrogen in rail travel?

In Germany and the U.S., some regional lines still use diesel-powered locomotives, which expose passengers inside the cars and at the stations to more harmful air pollutants like nitrogen oxide, than standing near a busy intersection in a city.

Along with eliminating this health hazard, the higher emissions cost of a diesel locomotive moving at slower speeds on regional lines are averaged down in national emissions figures by electric powered ones, making the whole endeavor appear less than it actually is.
.....
Inside fuel cells, hydrogen stored on the roof of the train combines with oxygen to make power. When that hydrogen and oxygen combine, the only thing left is H2O.

Alstom’s model can go 1,000 kilometers, or 621 miles before it needs a refueling, which for these inter-small town services means no refill will be needed until service finishes at the end of the day.

[Kung Wu]

I've often wondered why hydrogen powered vehicles haven't gotten more exposure. I don't know all of the specifics about them or cost effectiveness, but I remember reading about work on hydrogen powered cars back when I was in HS. We now have some hydrogen powered trains.

Getting "pure-ish" hydrogen is complex and costly, and pure hydrogen is unstable. So ideally they have to invent something that can separate hydrogen "on the fly" just before it's used (instead of storing unstable hydrogen in tanks at service stations like they do stable gasoline). If you want to get rich, invent a way to separate hydrogen inside an automobile motor engine in a cheap way and with enough speed to power a motor.

[SubGod22]

Getting "pure-ish" hydrogen is complex and costly, and pure hydrogen is unstable. So ideally they have to invent something that can separate hydrogen "on the fly" just before it's used (instead of storing unstable hydrogen in tanks at service stations like they do stable gasoline). If you want to get rich, invent a way to separate hydrogen inside an automobile motor engine in a cheap way and with enough speed to power a motor.

Figured there was something, though if they have these trains one would think they're moving in the right direction. Article also stated that they are negotiating with some companies in America, though the longer distances of many trains still may be an issue, it could become an option for more regionally based trains in some areas.

The good news is that getting stuff like this out there can only improve upon the things that's held it back. It still takes time, but it could be interesting to follow in the future.

As I've said many times, I'm open to any and all options when it comes to power and technology. I'm curious to see where this goes.