Debate #1: Obama vs McCain

[WuDrWu]

From his web site: ......will completely eliminate their federal income taxes.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


"From his website", like that means its the law. I am so sick of spin, on BOTH sides, I could vomit.

A large percentage of working Americans already do not pay any federal income tax so don't try to even call it a tax cut. It is welfare pure and simple.

You know what else? It isn't going to make 1 iota's bit of difference. So what if you give a guy making $25 k an extra $100 welfare check at the end of the year. All you did was by him some more beer.

However, in taking the money from the "wealthy" you probably managed to take one of his friend's job.

Well done shortsighted.

[WuDrWu]

A few things that scare me about Obama from this debate:

1) He is way too fixated on taxes. I'm more concerned about disciplined spending and when specifically asked what he would cut (now that the bailout is looming) he couldn't come up with one single thing.

2) His insistent lie that 95% will receive tax cuts. Well answer me this - if only 60% pay taxes then how can 95% receive a tax cut?

3) His concern about our global image. Sorry, we need to do what's right in the best interests of the American people and let the chips fall where they may. I sure as hell hope he's not worrying about how France or Germany will perceive us when contemplating foreign affairs matters.

4) He wants to sit down with rogue dictators w/o preconditions and thinks this is what Kissinger would do.

5) Tipping his hand about firing across the Pakistani border. What he's saying I agree with 100% but as McCain said you don't come out and say that on public record - just do it.


And these are just the first things that come to mind.

All great points. It stuns me that people think Senator Obama "won" the debate.....all he did was speak more eloquently. As a friend of mine said....he really speaks well he just doesn't say anything. This is all about style and not about substance and in today's world style is winning out....and unfortunately it comes as no surprise.


I dry heave at the thought of the 3 most powerful persons in our country being Obama, Reid & Pelosi.

Hell, that makes Joe Biden look like a savior.

[BostonWu]

2) His insistent lie that 95% will receive tax cuts. Well answer me this - if only 60% pay taxes then how can 95% receive a tax cut?

The 95% refers to workers. From his web site:

A $1000 "Making Work Pay" Tax Credit. For 95 percent of workers and their families—150 million workers overall—the "Making Work Pay" credit will provide a refundable tax cut of $500 for workers or $1000 for working couples. This credit will benefit over 15 million self employed workers and for 10 million low-income Americans, will completely eliminate their federal income taxes.

Again there's a lot of workers who pay no taxes. If you pay 0% taxes then it's impossible to receive a tax cut. I just wish Obama would quit spinning and break it down by telling the truth - 60% will receive a tax cut and another 35% will receive government subsidy check (more PC than wellfare check).

[ShockerFever]

I dunno which one is worse. The fact that this election is about as important as they come and we're left with these two poopheads.. scares me.

I have two options come November:

1.) To not vote at all
2.) Pick the lesser of two evils

[1979Shocker]

Here is a comparison of the tax plans of the two candidates.

Average Tax Bill Change: 2009

                        McCain            Obama
Income             Average Tax Bill  Average Tax Bill
 $38K -  $66K           -$319             -$1,042
 $66K - $112K         -$1,009             -$1,290
$112K - $161K         -$2,614             -$2,204
...
Over $2.9M          -$269,364           +$701,885

So, in this example, Obama's plan gives bigger tax cuts to the middle class. The big difference of the two plans is that, in McCain'c plan, those making over $2.9M get a tax cut of nearly $270K. Under Obama's Plan, they would get a tax increase of over $700K.

If taxes are their only concern, voters that make a lot of money should vote for McCain. Otherwise, they should vote for Obama. Most voters, however, aren't one issue voters so this needs to be taken into consideration when making their decisions.

[WuDrWu]

If taxes are their only concern, voters that make a lot of money should vote for McCain. Otherwise, they should vote for Obama. Most voters, however, aren't one issue voters so this needs to be taken into consideration when making their decisions.

Ok, not to offend anyone (ok if offends then too bad) but this is why stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote. If you are that stupid, selfish and shortsighted to believe that this is somehow good for you then there is absolutely no help for all of us.

Basing your voting decision upon "who's going to give me personally the most money" is exactly the kind of awful thought process that has us in the pickle we are currently in.

Folks, at this point, there are no EASY answers. It doesn't matter your affiliation. It is time to pay the piper, it's going to be tough but we all have the responsibility to help get us out. If you really want to learn at least a little, watch the round table from TWWGS when Newt and the boys get into the debt issue. Nobody wants to say anything about it because its going to hurt but there are some really good truths there.

[1979Shocker]

Basing your voting decision upon "who's going to give me personally the most money" is exactly the kind of awful thought process that has us in the pickle we are currently in.

I'm guessing that a lot of lower income families might vote this way. For me, there are other issues that make it impossible for me to vote for either candidate.

[kcshocker11]

Thought they both did a good job. Did think McCain not looking at Obama a bit odd. Obama address ing McCain as John didnt come across as disrespectful. The only ones who said that was the McCain camp grasping at straws.

I would expect nothing less from a supporter firmly entrenched 5 feet inside the sphincter of Senator Obama. It WAS disrespectful.

Can you even IMAGINE President Bush saying..."Al...Al!" Or Senator Kerry...."George....George!"

This isn't under the table Chicago back room politics. This counts and we have officially entered the deep end without floaties.

This is 1976 all over again......If you do not learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it.

The main difference is that there is an organized force in the world trying to do everything they can to destroy our way of life and some Americans think voting this rube into the most powerful post in the world is going to change their opinion and everyone will love us.

God help us.

Sorry Doc just didnt find it disrespectful. And yes I could see them using each others first names.

As for repeating the past I agree. I dont want more of the last 8 years. As far as the hind end isnt that the pot calling the kettle black! :D

[WuDrWu]

In all seriousness (and let me say I applaud your ability to remain tactful when I get frustrated.....you are a better man than I) what exactly do you expect from an Obama/Democratic leadership in Washington.

Please outline what you expect to happen in the next 2 years.....I am honestly curious what you think should and will happen with your side in charge of everything.

TY

Doc

[C0|dB|00ded]

If you don't mind, I'll chime in...

I think an Obama-led presidency will improve our image to the rest of the world. I believe that America's political decisions, whether they be domestic or foreign, will be given the benefit of the doubt by other world leaders with Obama in the White House.

As soon as Obama gets elected the wheels will be set in motion to minimize his damage to the "American Way" by a house and senate that gains a few more Republican seats.

Hopefully in four years we will look back to a period of less hawkish behavior out of Washington and more control of the Federal budget. Obama will learn within a few months that his dream of national healthcare will be just that.. a dream..

America needs a few years of peace before what looks like an inevitable confrontation with Iran. Hopefully we can support Iraq to the point where it can become a "little U.S." in regards to confronting Iran... that would be ideal.

P.S.

I'm trying to put a positive spin on the Obama situation because it looks like he is going to get elected and I don't want to get all nasty (depressed) like I was when Clinton won. If the "Obama era" is anything like the Clinton era, economically-wise, I'll be a happy camper.


T


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[rayc]

Isn't the Clinton era of prosperity what we are getting ready to pay for with the 800 billion ++ dollars?

I doubt the world opinion of the U.S.A. has greatly changed since the Kennedy/Johnson war in the early '60's (Vietnam, remember?), nor is it likely to change much under Obama -- unless he is sucessful in bringing our economy to third world status.

[SB Shock]

I doubt the world opinion of the U.S.A. has greatly changed since the Kennedy/Johnson war in the early '60's (Vietnam, remember?), nor is it likely to change much under Obama -- unless he is sucessful in bringing our economy to third world status.

I agree. We have always been hated by some. We are loved by others. Your never going to please everybody and you never elect an leader just "please" other countries. It not like they have our best interest in mind anyway.

[Maggie]

WuDrWu is correct about the TWWGS round table – it was a good discussion of the current crises.

And if any of you believe that an Obama Presidency would be as economically prosperous as the Clinton Era (without discussing how that happened) – I think you are drinking a bit too much coolaid. Say what you want about Clinton but at least he was pragmatic – he actually governed as a centrist. There is nothing in Obama’s background that suggests he would do the same – especially when Congress is controlled by his party.

[SB Shock]

If the "Obama era" is anything like the Clinton era, economically-wise, I'll be a happy camper.

It a totally different environment. Clinton inherited a economy that was coming out of slowdown (caused in part after elder Bush had raised taxes). Two years into Clinton administration you had the sweeping defeat of the democrats in the house and senate by Republicans who actually acted like conservatives. These conservatives actually froze budgets (but took it in the pants PR wise) that actually lead to the Clinton surpluses.

If you listened to the debate on Friday - Obama was asked what programs would have to go or be delayed and he was not willing to list any single one in fact he was listing reasons why they must go forward regardless.

As far as more republicans being elected? Why would you expect that? The Republican party is dead on ideals and principals.

[C0|dB|00ded]

If the "Obama era" is anything like the Clinton era, economically-wise, I'll be a happy camper.

It a totally different environment. Clinton inherited a economy that was coming out of slowdown (caused in part after elder Bush had raised taxes). Two years into Clinton administration you had the sweeping defeat of the democrats in the house and senate by Republicans who actually acted like conservatives. These conservatives actually froze budgets (but took it in the pants PR wise) that actually lead to the Clinton surpluses.

If you listened to the debate on Friday - Obama was asked what programs would have to go or be delayed and he was not willing to list any single one in fact he was listing reasons why they must go forward regardless.

As far as more republicans being elected? Why would you expect that? The Republican party is dead on ideals and principals.

I know there is still work to be done in regards to the economy digesting the liquidity crisis, but if we can wrap up this debacle in Iraq quickly we may see a bit of a post-war economic bump to the economy.

Does anybody know what this war is costing us? How about 16 billion a month (including Afghanistan). The Iraq war is the second longest war in American history (after Vietnam) and the second most costly (after WWII). Adding in costs hidden by the military budget, future veteran support, restocking and refurbishing military equipment which is severely depleted, and you could be looking at costs north of 1.5 trillion. When you consider that oil was less than 25.00 a barrel before the 2003 Iraq invasion the total impact to our economy has been predicted to be 3 trillion.

The reason I think more Republicans will be elected is because there is always a countervailing force that occurs in legislation when somebody gets a bit too far to one extreme in the White House. The "good old" staunch, conservative Republicans will run on a "reform campaign" and they will take seats.


T


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