Royals?

[wsushox1]

Three games back....

[RoyalShock]

I'm enjoying the fact they are playing meaningful games in September. I love their resiliency. I'd like to say I'm optimistic about getting that 2nd wildcard, but I'm not. Having to overtake four other teams, especially considering Cleveland's easy schedule (sans their games vs. KC), is going to take a virtual miracle. Could happen, I'm just not expecting it. Yet, I"m still hoping.

[DUShock]

It is progress! I can't recall in recent memory when the Royals (my mlb team) has been relevant. Better days!

[RoyalShock]

2.5 back, and will gain another half-game on either Bal or NY before the day is over.

The remaining schedules for AL East teams are brutal. Time to become huge Boston and Toronto fans (both of whom are playing very well), plus Texas when they play four against TB.

[martymoose]

Took the kids up to the game Friday...that was brutal. I need to stick with brining the family to watch Yankees and Boston games, still haven't seen the Royals lose to them in person over the last 4 or 5 years. I imagine if the Royals are still in the hunt come the 20th - 22nd vs Texas that place is going to be packed and rock'n. I may have to make it up for that Sunday game.

[SubGod22]

I think we'd be a wildcard team if we didn't have Yost. But it's still nice to be in the mix. Next year could be even better.

[WuShock16]

Who will be the Royals manager next year? Yost's contract is up after this year, so it wouldn't necessarily be looked at as firing a guy for leading the Royals to the brink of the playoffs. He served his contract...contract is up...go get a big-name who can take this very talented team to the World Series. Thoughts?

[shockmonster]

I'm enjoying the fact they are playing meaningful games in September. I love their resiliency. I'd like to say I'm optimistic about getting that 2nd wildcard, but I'm not. Having to overtake four other teams, especially considering Cleveland's easy schedule (sans their games vs. KC), is going to take a virtual miracle. Could happen, I'm just not expecting it. Yet, I"m still hoping.

We are probably in the same place. The odds are definitely against them but we hope is still alive. If TB loses tonight, it'll be 2 games.

[RoyalShock]

Two games out and just 4.5 behind Texas. Things are getting interesting.

[SubGod22]

Trying not to get excited as I'm sure we'll get Yosted yet again.

[ShockTalk]

I think we'd be a wildcard team if we didn't have Yost. But it's still nice to be in the mix. Next year could be even better.

Who will be the Royals manager next year? Yost's contract is up after this year, so it wouldn't necessarily be looked at as firing a guy for leading the Royals to the brink of the playoffs. He served his contract...contract is up...go get a big-name who can take this very talented team to the World Series. Thoughts?

Trying not to get excited as I'm sure we'll get Yosted yet again.

OK. Being somewhat of an outsider to Royals baseball, can you guys be a little more clear on all this?

I'm surprised they're doing as well as they are. Offensively, Gordon has been a .230 hitter since late May, although he's shown some power; Moose has the lowest batting average of his 3 so-so years with less power and RBI production than last year; Butler is down in most categories; Escobar is showing that last year's batting average might have been a one year thing; with Hosmer being their shining star this year (and, yes, Perez is a keeper).

Of the pitchers, Shields was the only one that had shown star quality before coming to KC. He's the rock of this staff and maybe the team. Many criticized getting him for Meyers, but the Royals would not be in the hunt without that trade. This is not to say Meyers will not be a star, he may be, but his .200 average over the last 30 days has taken some luster off his hot start. Another criticized acquisition, the coaching staff has developed Santana into the pitcher many thought he could be. Getting Guthrie wasn't thought much of either, Chen was washed up, as was Hochevar, but this coaching staff has helped keep them a valuable part of the team.

Even getting Bonifacio and Maxwell has helped.

I see more talented teams with bigger names (and bigger named managers) doing worse or not that much better than KC. So just what is getting "Yosted"?

[RoyalShock]

Yost has a reputation for over-managing and making poor decisions. He was basically let go in Milwaukee while they were in the hunt for exactly that.

I might also add that while he's done a good job managing the bullpen for the most part, the successes you reference have more to do with other factors such as:

- Change in hitting coaches in May (helping Hoz and Moose).
- Spacious ballpark helps flyball pitchers like Guthrie and Chen be more successful by holding more balls in the yard.
- KC's defense is arguably the best in the bigs over the past 20 years. That helps guys like Santana have career years and further make Guthrie and Chen appear better than they would be elsewhere.

I give more credit for those things to Dayton Moore, the assistant coaches and the minor league system.

I'll also add that you can tie some of the drop in offense of guys like Escobar and Gordon to the firing of Kevin Sietzer after last year. That was pretty much initiated by Yost.

I'd love to bring Seitzer back as a 2nd hitting coach to work with selected players but that kind of thinking is too far out-of-the-box for baseball.

[SubGod22]

Rany actually wrote a great piece on how we got Yosted in the loss to Cleveland the other night. He's had a number of decisions highly criticized by the fanbase since he arrived. Seitzer was fired purely because of Yost. I don't know all the details, but my KC friends have heard a lot more than me and I trust them.

As far as Shields/Myers, it's a little more complicated than how you put it. Shields has been awesome and better than I expected. But if you take him away, the starting staff is still alright and we could arguable have more offensive production due to Myers which could offset at least some of the wins/losses. This year, we're better with Shields. Next year, probably so. But Myers was under control for a long time and few think Shields stays.

Santana wasn't a bad deal. People were skeptical about how good he could be, but if he sucked, the damage was minimal. The problem some had is that this wasn't the year we expected to compete anyway so why waste the spot/money on him? You could argue that if he stays or not, he's helped make KC look a little more desirable to FAs and possible trade candidates who've previously put KC on the no trade list for them.

Guthrie is a solid pitcher and a good guy. He's nice to have in the middle of the rotation.

Chen has been a surprise, but I think a lot of that is because he hasn't pitched a ton of innings. That was a big concern with his 80 year old arm. I know there was some thinking that they could start him for the first half and then let Duffy take over when he was ready.

Hochevar can be dominant in the pen, but he's still had issues. And he's way over paid considering he's not a starter anymore. They should have cut him loose when they could have as we're not short on relief pitchers in the system.

Back to Shields/Myers, there were also three other fairly promising prospects traded away in that deal. Montgomery was a question mark as he has great stuff but major control issues. Odorizzi could have taken a spot at the back of the rotation but was traded away. Myers is obviously the big piece and has been pretty damn good. And Patrick Leonard may not be an A list prospect, but he had a very promising bat that many in the organization were excited about. The Royals also got Elliot Johnson who they cut loose after being of little use and Wade Davis who they continued to start even though he was as effective as Hochevar... There are still some who question if it was a good trade or not even though Shields has been so good for the rotation.

And if you read the Rany article I linked, please note that this wasn't a one time thing. He's cost KC a number of games with this line of thinking.

[ShockTalk]

Rany actually wrote a great piece on how we got Yosted in the loss to Cleveland the other night. He's had a number of decisions highly criticized by the fanbase since he arrived. Seitzer was fired purely because of Yost. I don't know all the details, but my KC friends have heard a lot more than me and I trust them.

As far as Shields/Myers, it's a little more complicated than how you put it. Shields has been awesome and better than I expected. But if you take him away, the starting staff is still alright and we could arguable have more offensive production due to Myers which could offset at least some of the wins/losses. This year, we're better with Shields. Next year, probably so. But Myers was under control for a long time and few think Shields stays.

Santana wasn't a bad deal. People were skeptical about how good he could be, but if he sucked, the damage was minimal. The problem some had is that this wasn't the year we expected to compete anyway so why waste the spot/money on him? You could argue that if he stays or not, he's helped make KC look a little more desirable to FAs and possible trade candidates who've previously put KC on the no trade list for them.

Guthrie is a solid pitcher and a good guy. He's nice to have in the middle of the rotation.

Chen has been a surprise, but I think a lot of that is because he hasn't pitched a ton of innings. That was a big concern with his 80 year old arm. I know there was some thinking that they could start him for the first half and then let Duffy take over when he was ready.

Hochevar can be dominant in the pen, but he's still had issues. And he's way over paid considering he's not a starter anymore. They should have cut him loose when they could have as we're not short on relief pitchers in the system.

Back to Shields/Myers, there were also three other fairly promising prospects traded away in that deal. Montgomery was a question mark as he has great stuff but major control issues. Odorizzi could have taken a spot at the back of the rotation but was traded away. Myers is obviously the big piece and has been pretty damn good. And Patrick Leonard may not be an A list prospect, but he had a very promising bat that many in the organization were excited about. The Royals also got Elliot Johnson who they cut loose after being of little use and Wade Davis who they continued to start even though he was as effective as Hochevar... There are still some who question if it was a good trade or not even though Shields has been so good for the rotation.

And if you read the Rany article I linked, please note that this wasn't a one time thing. He's cost KC a number of games with this line of thinking.

While I'm no particular fan of Yost, one poster to your linked article pointed out that Howser in 1985 pulled a "Yost" in the ninth inning of WS game 6th, but won in spite of his decisions that inning in the game that is the most important game in Royals history. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

The Royals lost that first game at Cleveland, however, any move Yost might of made at anytime in the 9th, didn't give the Royals a 50% or better chance of winning that game and they still ended up with the bases loaded, 2 outs, and Gordon at bat. Also, the Royals went on to win 2 of 3 at Cleveland.

I'm not defending Yost's field managing, but something has to be said for taking a team to possibly it's first winning season since 2003 and maybe it's highest winning percentage since the '94 shortened season. As I said before, I'm surprised they are as close as they are this late in the season.

As for Shields' value, from my perspective, it's a lot more than just the numbers he's put up on the bump. It's his attitude and vigor, whether while pitching, on the bench, or in the club house.

[RoyalShock]

A good chunk of just about every MLB fanbase thinks they have the worst manager (and GM) in the game. It's the nature of being a baseball fan, I guess. But when a manager (Yost) gets fired in the midst of a playoff race, I think that gives some credibility to the opinion he's not a playoff-caliber manager.

That said, he has been at the helm of the best KC team we've seen in 20 years.