KSHSAA Multiplier

[1972Shocker]

Obviously, enrollment size is a significant factor at least at the extremes. However, I don't know that it is the most important factor in the quality of a schools athletic program. I think the quality of coaching may be even more important and that varies greatly at the high school level. Infrastructure and resources are an important factor as well.

Southeast High School in Wichita is close to passing East High at the largest enrollment in Wichita and perhaps Kansas. But they are pretty poor (at best) in football and baseball. Now basketball they are pretty decent.

Probably other factors play into this as well including socio-economic factors.

If you searching for equity it ain't going to happen. Whether are not you can make the playing field more fair and balanced might be able to be tweaked some but their is only so much you can do.

And let's face it. Recruiting does go on at the high school level with some programs.

[WuShock16]

That happen know to some degree on voluntary basis. For example, I believe Attica and Agronia combine for 8-man football but play basketball a separate teams. But some of a lot of these small, rural schools are not all that close and making it more challenging for getting players to and from practices.

This might be in the works for Caldwell and South Haven as well. They started playing baseball together this spring. I thought I heard that all sports will be playing together soon.

[SubGod22]

Pretty sure Argonia and Attica combined for baseball years ago as well. I seem to remember having Argonia on the schedule but the JV jersey's said Attica. Or that could be the other way around. But it makes sense in sports that require a larger pool of players. Apparently Chaparral didn't want either of them. Though if you're consolidating districts and such it would probably make sense for both towns to join Chaparral, and maybe they will at some point.

[RoyalShock]

I can only speak directly with regards to how Hutch-Central Christian does things. And of course, they are a very small private school.

I've seen no evidence they recruit athletes. No kid is going to transfer from Hutch, Buhler, Nickerson or Haven to improve their quality of competition. Maybe for playing time, but it's not due to being recruited. Their best athletes (heck, all athletes from what I can tell) over the past 5 or 6 years have been kids who have been going there since before high school (they are K-12), or one of their parents is a faculty member.

Enrollment in each class is capped due to staffing. I believe the cap is 25. They can't just hire more teachers, and they don't want to exceed a maximum teacher-student ratio. I could see some of the larger schools doing this for the same reason and not to stay in a certain athletic classification.

[rrshock]

I can only speak directly with regards to how Hutch-Central Christian does things. And of course, they are a very small private school.

I've seen no evidence they recruit athletes. No kid is going to transfer from Hutch, Buhler, Nickerson or Haven to improve their quality of competition. Maybe for playing time, but it's not due to being recruited. Their best athletes (heck, all athletes from what I can tell) over the past 5 or 6 years have been kids who have been going there since before high school (they are K-12), or one of their parents is a faculty member.

Enrollment in each class is capped due to staffing. I believe the cap is 25. They can't just hire more teachers, and they don't want to exceed a maximum teacher-student ratio. I could see some of the larger schools doing this for the same reason and not to stay in a certain athletic classification.

Wichita Collegiate used to do that to stay in a certain class, but I'm not sure they do anymore. However this multiplier would move them up.

[ShockBand]

Wichita Collegiate used to do that to stay in a certain class, but I'm not sure they do anymore. However this multiplier would move them up.

I taught at Collegiate in the mid and late 90s. The loose cap per grade level, based on having a max capacity at the elementary level of three 20 student classrooms per grade, was 60. And that was based on available physical classrooms and number of teachers in the elementary building. That number carried through the middle and high school levels, again largely driven by available physical classroom spaces as well as number of teachers. So the size of Collegiate at the high school back then always maxed out around 240, give or take a few. Based on the numbers earlier in this thread, it doesn't appear that the capacities have changed.

That 240 mark used to have Collegiate in the middle to upper part of the 3A range. Now in the overall classifications, where 6A, 5A, and 4A each have 36 schools, Collegiate appears to sit right near the middle, but for football, where 6A/5A/4A are 32 schools each, Collegiate is the literal smallest in 3A.

As for the sentiment about the multiplier, I do understand it especially for those schools that face Miege on a regular basis. That said, I'm not sure the proposed Kansas design really makes sense. And with the freedom of movement between public schools that is coming, things are going to get quite interesting I believe. The accusations will be flying I'm sure.

[Kel Varnsen]

I can only speak directly with regards to how Hutch-Central Christian does things. And of course, they are a very small private school.

I've seen no evidence they recruit athletes. No kid is going to transfer from Hutch, Buhler, Nickerson or Haven to improve their quality of competition. Maybe for playing time, but it's not due to being recruited. Their best athletes (heck, all athletes from what I can tell) over the past 5 or 6 years have been kids who have been going there since before high school (they are K-12), or one of their parents is a faculty member.

Enrollment in each class is capped due to staffing. I believe the cap is 25. They can't just hire more teachers, and they don't want to exceed a maximum teacher-student ratio. I could see some of the larger schools doing this for the same reason and not to stay in a certain athletic classification.

Yeah, agreed. There are schools that come to mind that don't recruit, like Central Christian. Typically, they are more insular and have a specific goal apart from athletics that determines who attends that school. The Christian schools up here in KC come to mind, but it's not limited to them. Thankfully, this won't likely affect them unless I'm wrong.

Again, this whole thing was designed to deal with Miege. Plain and simple. And that's a good thing.

[pinstripers]

Collegiate recruits. Collegiate caps enrollment to stay in 3A. Let them play in their own private school state tournaments.

[Shockm]

As for the sentiment about the multiplier, I do understand it especially for those schools that face Miege on a regular basis. That said, I'm not sure the proposed Kansas design really makes sense. And with the freedom of movement between public schools that is coming, things are going to get quite interesting I believe. The accusations will be flying I'm sure.

My understanding is that for athletic performance in a public school, the family still has to make a bonafide move into that district, and both schools still have to sign off. For example, The student cannot just move into a friends house. That hasn’t changed in the area of athletics. That rule however, does not pertain to private schools.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

As for the sentiment about the multiplier, I do understand it especially for those schools that face Miege on a regular basis. That said, I'm not sure the proposed Kansas design really makes sense. And with the freedom of movement between public schools that is coming, things are going to get quite interesting I believe. The accusations will be flying I'm sure.

If it passes, what I imagine will happen is Miege and other private schools will win state in their new classes and public schools will still be upset and want to tweak the multiplier like Missouri did. Then when that doesn't work either, they'll propose private schools not be allowed to compete and have to compete in a private school tournament instead. But then, when open enrollment for public schools rolls around on 1/1/2024, some public schools will start to dominate and the public schools complaining about private schools now will start losing to those other public schools and will be campaigning for a multiplier involving public schools.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

The voting results came back - the AD's had until June 14 to vote - https://kshsaacovered.com/news/2022/...next-step.aspx

Voting Results were as follows:
Class 6A: Yes = 6 (16.7%) No = 30
Class 5A: Yes = 17 (47.2%) No = 19
Class 4A: Yes = 30 (83.3%) No = 6
Class 3A: Yes = 46 (71.9%) No = 18
Class 2A: Yes = 43 (67.2%) No = 21
Class 1A: Yes = 74 (63.2%) No = 43

Total Number of Member School Votes: Yes = 216 (61.2%) No = 139

To move on, a majority of the classes had to vote Yes, so since 4 of the 6 did so, the Kansas State Board of Education and the state legislature need to approve the change. Here's a good article on what comes next and it's chances of getting approved - https://www.parsonssun.com/news/coro...8e27c0a1a.html

[SubGod22]

This still seems like really odd timing with open enrollment, or whatever it's called, starting. I've already heard of a number of public schools working angles to attract certain talent to them.

[RoyalShock]

The voting results came back - the AD's had until June 14 to vote - https://kshsaacovered.com/news/2022/...next-step.aspx

Voting Results were as follows:
Class 6A: Yes = 6 (16.7%) No = 30
Class 5A: Yes = 17 (47.2%) No = 19
Class 4A: Yes = 30 (83.3%) No = 6
Class 3A: Yes = 46 (71.9%) No = 18
Class 2A: Yes = 43 (67.2%) No = 21
Class 1A: Yes = 74 (63.2%) No = 43

Total Number of Member School Votes: Yes = 216 (61.2%) No = 139

To move on, a majority of the classes had to vote Yes, so since 4 of the 6 did so, the Kansas State Board of Education and the state legislature need to approve the change. Here's a good article on what comes next and it's chances of getting approved - https://www.parsonssun.com/news/coro...8e27c0a1a.html

Interesting results.

Reading into it, I would say the 6A and 5A schools obviously fear Miege.

I'm a little surprised 1A and 2A voted for it, as outside of maybe Berean Academy I haven't noticed any dominant private schools.

[SubGod22]

I'm not sure if 5A and 6A fear Miege or just don't care.

[shoxlax]

Interesting results.

Reading into it, I would say the 6A and 5A schools obviously fear Miege.

I'm a little surprised 1A and 2A voted for it, as outside of maybe Berean Academy I haven't noticed any dominant private schools.

You mean Elyria Christian isn’t a powerhouse?