KSHSAA Multiplier

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

Some sort of multiplier to move private schools up classes if they win a lot of state championships has been talked about for years, and it looks like the schools will be voting on one this May. Here's an article with a lot of information, including a link to the full proposal, which takes into account number of state championships won in the last 5 years (10 or more championships across all sports to add to multiplier), geographic population, and free and reduced lunch population - https://kshsaacovered.com/news/2022/...d-meeting.aspx

A majority of member schools and a majority of the six classifications must approve the new proposal before it moves on to enactment. The vote is just the first step:

If the member schools pass it, the proposal would be sent to the State Board of Education for approval since it would alter a KSHSAA by-law. If approved by the state board, it would be brought before the Kansas Legislature to seek an amendment of Kansas Statute 72-130, which currently dictates KSHSAA must use a flat enrollment figure as the sole determining factor for high school classifications.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

The article at https://kshsaacovered.com/news/2022/...d-meeting.aspx has at the bottom of the page a list of how private schools would be affected by the multiplier:

"Under this proposal, based on current figures, St. James Academy, St. Thomas Aquinas, Bishop Carroll and Kapaun Mt. Carmel would all move up to 6A, pushing Hutchinson, JC Harmon, Liberal and Wichita West down to 5A. Bishop Miege would move up to 5A, pushing Piper down to 4A. Wichita Collegiate would move up to 4A with Concordia sliding down to 3A. Kansas City Christian and Wichita Independent would move up to 3A with Frontenac and Rossville dropping down to 2A. No changes would be made in 1A.

In football, which only counts the enrollment numbers for ninth through 11th grade, Bishop Carroll and Kapaun Mt. Carmel would move up to 6A and St. James Academy, St. Thomas Aquinas and Bishop Miege would move up to 5A. Topeka Hayden would move up to 4A and Sacred Heart would move up to 2A."

MULTIPLIER EFFECTS (with current figures)

School: Enrollment | Multiplier | Adjusted enrollment | Effect

Bishop Carroll: 1,178 | 1.75 | 2,062 | 5A to 6A
St. Thomas Aquinas: 880 | 1.75 | 1,540 | 5A to 6A
Kapaun Mt. Carmel: 910 | 1.60 | 1,456 | 5A to 6A
St. James Academy: 859 | 1.75 | 1,503 | 5A to 6A
Bishop Miege | 668 |: 1.75 | 1,169 | 4A to 5A
Hayden: 336 | 1.60 | 538 | No change
KC Bishop Ward | 308: 1.00 | 308 | No change
Wichita Trinity: 288 | 1.00 | 288 | No change
Wichita Collegiate: 244 | 1.75 | 427 | 3A to 4A
TMP-Marian: 182 | 1.00 | 182 | No change
Maur Hill-Mt. Academy: 162 | 1.00 | 162 | No change
Olathe Heritage Christian: 174 | 1.60 | 278 | No change
St. Mary's Colgan: 127 | 1.00 | 127 | No change
KC Christian: 120 | 1.60 | 192 | 2A to 3A
Hutchinson Trinity: 140 | 1.00 | 140 | No change
Seabury Academy: 107 | 1.00 | 107 | No change
Sacred Heart: 114 | 1.45 | 165 | No change
Wichita Independent: 116 | 1.60 | 168 | 2A to 3A
Berean Academy: 119 | 1.00 | 119 | No change
Maranatha Academy: 120 | 1.00 | 120 | No change
Cair Paravel: 102 | 1.00 | 102 | No change
Wichita Classical: 98 | 1.00 | 98 | No change
Elyria Christian: 61 | 1.00 | 61 | No change
Hutchinson Central Christian: 61 | 1.00 | 61 | No change
Beloit-St. John's: 45 | 1.00 | 45 | No change
Wichita Central Christian: 65 | 1.00 | 65 | No change
St. Xavier: 17 | 1.00 | 17 | No change
Tipton Catholic: 15 | 1.00 | 15 | No change

NOTE: Numbers based on 2021-22 enrollment figures used to determine classification in all activities except football.

[SubGod22]

This should also apply to schools like Andale who dominate their class if they're going to do it, which they shouldn't.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

This should also apply to schools like Andale who dominate their class if they're going to do it, which they shouldn't.

I agree. I think since the legislature has to make a change to make it final, legislators will either balk at the idea, or if they make the change, the private schools will challenge it in court and use places like Andale as an example of how it's not fair.

Seems like it's gained popularity this year due to Bishop Miege dominating the girls state basketball tournament.

[Shockm]

This should also apply to schools like Andale who dominate their class if they're going to do it, which they shouldn't.

The rationale behind the private schools moving up a class, has nothing to do with whether they were “winning” or not. The rationale had to do with the fact that private schools could gain students (recruit students for lack of a better word) that were not within their district lines, and this assisted them to “win” more often. Your example of Andale doesn’t fit this description at all. The fact that Andale, Colwich, and Garden Plain are cohesive communities whose family values and beliefs are tied to their schools, and their students decide not to attend Private/Catholic schools isn’t the same thing. It used to be that many public schools had those same values but policies on Trans students and other LBGTQ oriented policies have cut into those cohesive communities.

Wichita schools for one example have lost many students to KMCHS, Carroll, Independent, Trinity, etc, because of these values being altered. And that’s not even talking about too many schools going to online schools a couple of years ago, while private school didn’t. That chased a lot of families off, even in small bedroom communities. People who value Traditional values don’t trust public schools in many communities, not just Wichita. They are looking for other options. Private schools and other schools who are run by churches, are trusted more.

[Kung Wu]

These kids dont get enough food to eat and should be getting paid to play. The high schools are ROLLING in tax payer revenue, how come the athlete can't make a little coin too?

[Shockm]

These kids dont get enough food to eat and should be getting paid to play. The high schools are ROLLING in tax payer revenue, how come the athlete can't make a little coin too?

Funny

[rrshock]

This is all about Miege. Always has been. Their league and class are pissed they are in it. They also apparently get kids from Missouri. They just couldn't single out one school.

[SubGod22]

The rationale behind the private schools moving up a class, has nothing to do with whether they were “winning” or not. The rationale had to do with the fact that private schools could gain students (recruit students for lack of a better word) that were not within their district lines, and this assisted them to “win” more often. Your example of Andale doesn’t fit this description at all. The fact that Andale, Colwich, and Garden Plain are cohesive communities whose family values and beliefs are tied to their schools, and their students decide not to attend Private/Catholic schools isn’t the same thing. It used to be that many public schools had those same values but policies on Trans students and other LBGTQ oriented policies have cut into those cohesive communities.

Wichita schools for one example have lost many students to KMCHS, Carroll, Independent, Trinity, etc, because of these values being altered. And that’s not even talking about too many schools going to online schools a couple of years ago, while private school didn’t. That chased a lot of families off, even in small bedroom communities. People who value Traditional values don’t trust public schools in many communities, not just Wichita. They are looking for other options. Private schools and other schools who are run by churches, are trusted more.

Except they only want to bump up the successful ones, which tells you it's only about winning.

[Kel Varnsen]

This is all about Miege. Always has been. Their league and class are pissed they are in it. They also apparently get kids from Missouri. They just couldn't single out one school.

This is absolutely and unequivocally the case. They game the system in order to get just enough kids in to stay in 4A. Thankfully, this will prevent them from doing this. Although, I'm not too mad that it does the same to the likes of Carroll, Kapaun, Hayden, STA, and St. James.

I do have some qualms with the methodology, though. Long-term, it will hurt schools that are growing, particularly the private school my wife teaches and coaches at here in the KC area. They are a volleyball juggernaut, but overall, haven't had a ton of success in other sports, and do not recruit at all. Their multiplier would potentially bump them up to 4A down the road, which would be a nightmare in sports like basketball.

I believe Missouri recently put in a post-season success factor, and that was it. No effect on private schools just for being private (previously, that was the methodology).

https://www.newstribune.com/news/2020/aug/09/mshsaas-championship-factor-bump-some-non-public-s/

Something like this would likely put Miege squarely in 5A and potentially in 6A if they are successful enough.

Ultimately, this serves to benefit the athletes, as they will mostly be competing against schools with similar size/makeup regardless. I actually think the success multiplier should be applied to public schools as well. Can we get Derby in their own classification?

I'd be in favor of having more cross-class events, like a KSHSAA Champions League of sorts or a Big State type of event. Hard to do with football, but it would be really interesting to see Andale play Bishop Carroll in football, or even see Heights play Hillsboro in Boys Basketball.

Also, Kansas shouldn't have more than 5 classes, maybe 4. To have 7 divisions for basketball and even more for football as a state this small is insane.

[WuShock16]

Fun fact: there are exactly ZERO private schools in 6A. You'd think one or two of the popular/successful ones might sneak in there, but no. Pretty much proves that there is some kind of enrollment manipulation going on.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

Another interesting wrinkle to all this is open enrollment in Kansas could happen starting January 1, 2024. What that means is a student can attend any district in the state provided the district has room. A lot of the articles out there about it talk about the effect it'll have on enrollment and special education, but few talk about how it could affect sports. Wouldn't be hard for a district to become a powerhouse when a bunch of players of a strong club team decide to all attend the same school, etc. Here are some articles regarding the change -

https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-...rict/39880069#

https://www.koamnewsnow.com/kansas-s...-for-students/

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

Fun fact: there are exactly ZERO private schools in 6A. You'd think one or two of the popular/successful ones might sneak in there, but no. Pretty much proves that there is some kind of enrollment manipulation going on.

Talk about the currently proposed multiplier system started back in June, 2021, and after some meetings, KSHSAA asked it's members to vote on it at their regional meetings in October. They asked them the following -

Should the KSHSAA utilize a classification multiplier as developed by the 2021 KSHSAA Public/Private Work Group?

The overall vote came back as YES - 106 and NO - 84. Someone at the time told me 5A and 6A schools were against it. The 6A schools didn't want any private schools moving up and 5A figured all they were doing was replacing one set of private schools with another set of private schools.

It'll be interesting to see how the May vote turns out.

[shocktheheart]

Fun fact: there are exactly ZERO private schools in 6A. You'd think one or two of the popular/successful ones might sneak in there, but no. Pretty much proves that there is some kind of enrollment manipulation going on.

How are they manipulating enrollment? My oldest son has gone through Carroll and played sports. There was exactly one non Catholic playing sports there at the time and she played C team soccer. Which Catholic school should be in 6a as Kapaun doesn't have room to grow and Carroll is busting at the seams in their current building.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

How are they manipulating enrollment? My oldest son has gone through Carroll and played sports. There was exactly one non Catholic playing sports there at the time and she played C team soccer. Which Catholic school should be in 6a as Kapaun doesn't have room to grow and Carroll is busting at the seams in their current building.

Yeah, I don't see manipulating enrollment having much effect with 6A. Here's a link to the enrollment numbers used by classes - https://www.kshsaa.org/Public/Genera...ifications.cfm and Carroll is about the only private school anywhere close to being 6A but even then, there are a number of growing public schools ahead of them or slightly below them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kapaun drop down the list of 5A schools and even drop down to 4A one of these years as other districts grow.