KSHSAA Multiplier

[Shockm]

How are they manipulating enrollment? My oldest son has gone through Carroll and played sports. There was exactly one non Catholic playing sports there at the time and she played C team soccer. Which Catholic school should be in 6a as Kapaun doesn't have room to grow and Carroll is busting at the seams in their current building.

I don't know about manipulating enrollment, but I know for a fact that our private schools have in the past, "recruited" city wide junior high football players (coaches and boosters attended games, etc.). Visits were made, and free tuition to the schools was given out. Maurice and De Angelo Evans didn't for example pay their way into Collegiate. For various reasons, some players turned down the offers. I think that these offers were more attractive when the teams were Successful and winning. Lot's of players (Jeff Smith for example) turned down the offers, most likely because their high school teams were successful, and the junior high "feeder" programs were being successful also. If players are close friends to athletes who are going to a high school, they are very likely to go to that high school, but without the offer of the "tuition scholarship", the chances of the Evans going to Collegiate would be very low.

I have a strong feeling that this a lot of the bad feelings (especially at Miege) who gets quite a few players from as far away as Missouri. This is why Sunrise Academy has met with a lot of push back in the past, but now they probably don't care.

[Kel Varnsen]

How are they manipulating enrollment? My oldest son has gone through Carroll and played sports. There was exactly one non Catholic playing sports there at the time and she played C team soccer. Which Catholic school should be in 6a as Kapaun doesn't have room to grow and Carroll is busting at the seams in their current building.

There's little doubt they should be in 6A as opposed to 5A based on both the KSHSAA criteria and common sense.

And if you don't think Carroll, Kapaun, and Collegiate are recruiting and have been for years, I have some oceanfront property on Rock Road to sell you.

[Kel Varnsen]

I have a strong feeling that this a lot of the bad feelings (especially at Miege) who gets quite a few players from as far away as Missouri. This is why Sunrise Academy has met with a lot of push back in the past, but now they probably don't care.

True, although Sunrise has never been a part of KSHSAA due in part to that fact. They have occasionally played area teams, but they are still not KSHSAA-affiliated.

[SubGod22]

True, although Sunrise has never been a part of KSHSAA due in part to that fact. They have occasionally played area teams, but they are still not KSHSAA-affiliated.

Not KSHSAA affiliated but KSHSAA approved. Sunrise has the team everyone knows about, but they then have a varsity and JV that are the ones that will play local schools and count as a win or a loss on the official record. The "Eilite" team is the one that runs the national private circuit and plays some of the small colleges as well.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

Yeah, I don't see manipulating enrollment having much effect with 6A. Here's a link to the enrollment numbers used by classes - https://www.kshsaa.org/Public/Genera...ifications.cfm and Carroll is about the only private school anywhere close to being 6A but even then, there are a number of growing public schools ahead of them or slightly below them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kapaun drop down the list of 5A schools and even drop down to 4A one of these years as other districts grow.

Also, here is a pdf with the numbers that will be used for football next year. Football only uses enrollment in grades 9-11. Only 2 private schools in Class 5A - Carroll and Kapaun. Carroll has 12 schools ahead of them before they would go to 6A, while Kapaun only has 4 schools below it before it'd drop to 4A, and is only 20 students away from being the bottom of 5A. In 4A, two of the top 5 are private schools - OP-STA and St James Academy. There's probably a good chance in a few years, those two will be 5A and Kapaun will be 4A.

[Kel Varnsen]

Not KSHSAA affiliated but KSHSAA approved. Sunrise has the team everyone knows about, but they then have a varsity and JV that are the ones that will play local schools and count as a win or a loss on the official record. The "Eilite" team is the one that runs the national private circuit and plays some of the small colleges as well.

Yes, good distinction.

[Mr. Pickle]

There's little doubt they should be in 6A as opposed to 5A based on both the KSHSAA criteria and common sense.

And if you don't think Carroll, Kapaun, and Collegiate are recruiting and have been for years, I have some oceanfront property on Rock Road to sell you.

Can't speak for the other two, but I am an alumnus and Carroll does not recruit in any meaningful way. I sort of understand the drive behind the Miege situation, but the rest of it comes across as sour grapes.

[Shockm]

I am an alumnus and Carroll does not recruit in any meaningful way.

Are you sure?

[Mr. Pickle]

Are you sure?

Yep. You have any firsthand accounts?

[Shockm]

Not recently, but I’ve heard from past boosters who quietly (not on the books) helped athletes in the past. Some of the private schools give out scholarships to “needy or poor” students through the school. Others have done it “under the table”.

[rrshock]

Also, Kansas shouldn't have more than 5 classes, maybe 4. To have 7 divisions for basketball and even more for football as a state this small is insane.

If you look at enrollment numbers alo e, you will see the need for soany classes. We could argue that 5a and 6a should be one class, since they only have 32 versus 64 in the others. But there are around 120 1a schools too. 4a has a huge discrepancy from top to bottom and has for quite some time. My kids attend a school.that jumps from 2a to 3a and back on occasion. There is a huge affect on activities even when that happens.

[Kel Varnsen]

If you look at enrollment numbers alo e, you will see the need for soany classes. We could argue that 5a and 6a should be one class, since they only have 32 versus 64 in the others. But there are around 120 1a schools too. 4a has a huge discrepancy from top to bottom and has for quite some time. My kids attend a school that jumps from 2a to 3a and back on occasion. There is a huge affect on activities even when that happens.

I agree that there is a huge difference, but is that not normal for other states as well? Genuinely curious. I think there will always be a big enrollment discrepancy, but I'm not aware of a state our size having as many divisions as we do.

[Kel Varnsen]

All numbers for basketball (for standardization):

Mississippi - slightly larger than KS - 6 classifications
Arkansas - slightly larger than KS - 7 classifications
New Mexico - slightly smaller than KS - 5 classifications
Nebraska - fairly smaller than KS - 6 classifications
Idaho - fairly smaller than KS - 6 classifications
West Virginia - fairly smaller than KS - 4 classifications

We currently have 7 for basketball and 8 for football. Still too much, in my opinion.

Texas - 6 classifications
Florida - 7 classifications
California - 7 classifications
Pennsylvania - 6 classifications
Ohio - 4 classifications

Interesting to note that some large states have similar or fewer classes than states around our size. I think we need fewer classes overall, but that's just my opinion.

[rrshock]

All numbers for basketball (for standardization):

Mississippi - slightly larger than KS - 6 classifications
Arkansas - slightly larger than KS - 7 classifications
New Mexico - slightly smaller than KS - 5 classifications
Nebraska - fairly smaller than KS - 6 classifications
Idaho - fairly smaller than KS - 6 classifications
West Virginia - fairly smaller than KS - 4 classifications

We currently have 7 for basketball and 8 for football. Still too much, in my opinion.

Texas - 6 classifications
Florida - 7 classifications
California - 7 classifications
Pennsylvania - 6 classifications
Ohio - 4 classifications

Interesting to note that some large states have similar or fewer classes than states around our size. I think we need fewer classes overall, but that's just my opinion.

Add one more football class for 6 man next year.

There really is no good way to do it, but you would really need to make the larger classes bigger, and keep the smaller ones closer to the way they are. When some schools rely on damn near every boy or girl to participate in order to field a team, it makes it difficult. Maybe it is really time for another round of school consolidations. Close some of the super small districts or take some districts with multiple high schools (in smaller classes) and make them play sports together.

It stinks that Miege did what they did, and all schools are going to pay for it.

[1972Shocker]

Close some of the super small districts or take some districts with multiple high schools (in smaller classes) and make them play sports together.

That happen know to some degree on voluntary basis. For example, I believe Attica and Agronia combine for 8-man football but play basketball a separate teams. But some of a lot of these small, rural schools are not all that close and making it more challenging for getting players to and from practices.