North High Redskins no more.

[shoxlax]

Wichita High School North Should tap into the Etzanoa (Etzanoans?). The Wichita Indian village that once had 20,000 inhabitants. The school has an amazing Indian facade. Build on the growing familiarity of Etzanoa, and educate on the proud Etzs

I thought they played in the Ark Valley-Chisholm Trail league?

[Kung Wu]

Wichita High School North Should tap into the Etzanoa (Etzanoans?). The Wichita Indian village that once had 20,000 inhabitants. The school has an amazing Indian facade. Build on the growing familiarity of Etzanoa, and educate on the proud Etzs

Why? The North High architecture is full of tributes (including the Redskins mascot), pays homage, and tells the story of the Wichita Indians that actually settled right in the immediate vicinity of the high school. Why should they downplay their own story by trying to incorporate a completely different story from a completely different area?

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

So obviously I have no strong opinion on this matter (I've already poked fun of Kung Wu for being sexist earlier in the thread), so I offer a perspective of someone who just really doesn't care one way or another about the Redskins.

Anyway, this thread is an exercise in overreaction from both sides of the debate. Both. Which really makes it a microcosm of our culture wars.

Here's how so many debates transpire anymore:

Person 1: I'm really outraged about this one thing that has no bearing on me whatsoever!

Person 2: Then you must be upset about these 746 other related things!! That's outrageous. You should not be outraged about this. When will the madness end??!!!

Person 1: But I'm not really upset about ALL those things. Just this one thing that I find pretty outrageous.

Person 3: But I guess I'm upset about one of those 746 things, it also doesn't affect me but it still outrages me.

Person 2: REALLY??!! That's outrageous. Everyone is upset about those 746 things!!! If you guys get your way, the Earth will spin off its axis and hurl itself into the sun!!!

Person 3: But, wait, I'm upset about only this one thing that is clearly outrageous.

Person 1: Oh, and me this other one thing. Don't forget about my outrage!

Person 2: My outrage is better than any of your guys' outrage because I'm outraged about your outrage of 746 things.

Person 3: But I think we're only outraged about these two specific things.

Person 2: Oh, so now you're outraged about the 2 things now huh?! See, your outrage is growing! Soon, you will be outraged about all the 746 things. Just as I suspected!!!!

Person 4: Wait, wait. You guys are also forgetting about these 312 things that are kinda sorta related to the 746 things y'all are outraged about. You must be outraged about those too.

Person 2: Well I sure am!


It's kind of exhausting.

[Shockm]

So obviously I have no strong opinion on this matter (I've already poked fun of Kung Wu for being sexist earlier in the thread), so I offer a perspective of someone who just really doesn't care one way or another about the Redskins.

Anyway, this thread is an exercise in overreaction from both sides of the debate. Both. Which really makes it a microcosm of our culture wars.

Here's how so many debates transpire anymore:

Person 1: I'm really outraged about this one thing that has no bearing on me whatsoever!

Person 2: Then you must be upset about these 746 other related things!! That's outrageous. You should not be outraged about this. When will the madness end??!!!

Person 1: But I'm not really upset about ALL those things. Just this one thing that I find pretty outrageous.

Person 3: But I guess I'm upset about one of those 746 things, it also doesn't affect me but it still outrages me.

Person 2: REALLY??!! That's outrageous. Everyone is upset about those 746 things!!! If you guys get your way, the Earth will spin off its axis and hurl itself into the sun!!!

Person 3: But, wait, I'm upset about only this one thing that is clearly outrageous.

Person 1: Oh, and me this other one thing. Don't forget about my outrage!

Person 2: My outrage is better than any of your guys' outrage because I'm outraged about your outrage of 746 things.

Person 3: But I think we're only outraged about these two specific things.

Person 2: Oh, so now you're outraged about the 2 things now huh?! See, your outrage is growing! Soon, you will be outraged about all the 746 things. Just as I suspected!!!!

Person 4: Wait, wait. You guys are also forgetting about these 312 things that are kinda sorta related to the 746 things y'all are outraged about. You must be outraged about those too.

Person 2: Well I sure am!


It's kind of exhausting.

We were becoming unified as a country a couple of weeks ago after being called racists. Now those of us who voted for Trump because of his conservative policies (even though he would have made deals with Dems on issues that would have angered some Conservatives) but didn’t particularly care for him as a person have had to dig the knife out of our backs from Biden.

[wufan]

Wichita High School North Should tap into the Etzanoa (Etzanoans?). The Wichita Indian village that once had 20,000 inhabitants. The school has an amazing Indian facade. Build on the growing familiarity of Etzanoa, and educate on the proud Etzs

Etzanoa is one of the greatest archeological finds of the past decade.

[wufan]

Why? The North High architecture is full of tributes (including the Redskins mascot), pays homage, and tells the story of the Wichita Indians that actually settled right in the immediate vicinity of the high school. Why should they downplay their own story by trying to incorporate a completely different story from a completely different area?

I believe the Indians at Etzenoa were Kaw as were the Wichita. It’s likely same tribe, different century.

[wufan]

So obviously I have no strong opinion on this matter (I've already poked fun of Kung Wu for being sexist earlier in the thread), so I offer a perspective of someone who just really doesn't care one way or another about the Redskins.

Anyway, this thread is an exercise in overreaction from both sides of the debate. Both. Which really makes it a microcosm of our culture wars.

Here's how so many debates transpire anymore:

Person 1: I'm really outraged about this one thing that has no bearing on me whatsoever!

Person 2: Then you must be upset about these 746 other related things!! That's outrageous. You should not be outraged about this. When will the madness end??!!!

Person 1: But I'm not really upset about ALL those things. Just this one thing that I find pretty outrageous.

Person 3: But I guess I'm upset about one of those 746 things, it also doesn't affect me but it still outrages me.

Person 2: REALLY??!! That's outrageous. Everyone is upset about those 746 things!!! If you guys get your way, the Earth will spin off its axis and hurl itself into the sun!!!

Person 3: But, wait, I'm upset about only this one thing that is clearly outrageous.

Person 1: Oh, and me this other one thing. Don't forget about my outrage!

Person 2: My outrage is better than any of your guys' outrage because I'm outraged about your outrage of 746 things.

Person 3: But I think we're only outraged about these two specific things.

Person 2: Oh, so now you're outraged about the 2 things now huh?! See, your outrage is growing! Soon, you will be outraged about all the 746 things. Just as I suspected!!!!

Person 4: Wait, wait. You guys are also forgetting about these 312 things that are kinda sorta related to the 746 things y'all are outraged about. You must be outraged about those too.

Person 2: Well I sure am!


It's kind of exhausting.

Well yeah. The divide in this country isn’t about 1 thing, it’s about philosophical divisions of reality.

Is this country racist to its core or not? If it is, then we must tear down the institutions and rebuild with equity. If it is not, then we have to stop trying to tear down the institutions great and small.

[Kung Wu]

I believe the Indians at Etzanoa were Kaw as were the Wichita. It’s likely same tribe, different century.

Yeah, definitely a different timeline (Etzanoa is an amazing story for sure), but the story about the Wichita Indians that settled near North High and the interactions with the Wichitan settlers is compelling enough. Etzanoa is really Arkansas City's story, IMO.

[Veritas]

Why? The North High architecture is full of tributes (including the Redskins mascot), pays homage, and tells the story of the Wichita Indians that actually settled right in the immediate vicinity of the high school. Why should they downplay their own story by trying to incorporate a completely different story from a completely different area?

What should they be called? Wichita High School North Wichitans? Wichita High School North Wichitas?

[Kung Wu]

What should they be called? Wichita High School North Wichitans? Wichita High School North Wichitas?

How about Wichita High School North Redskins? :)

[Veritas]

How about Wichita High School North Redskins? :)

That ship has sailed. So realistically, what do they do now?

[mattdalt]

Wichita North High Rockhoppers? It would make one alum happy. lol

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Well yeah. The divide in this country isn’t about 1 thing, it’s about philosophical divisions of reality.

Is this country racist to its core or not? If it is, then we must tear down the institutions and rebuild with equity. If it is not, then we have to stop trying to tear down the institutions great and small.

You seem to be addressing a highly nuanced situation with absolutes.

So let's be honest with ourselves. Is this country racist to its core? It used to be, but not anymore. Are there still echoes and imprints of its racist past? It's difficult to successfully argue that there aren't without seeming either tone deaf or completely ignorant. Those seem like obvious answers, at least to me.

There are good and legitimate arguments against changing sports mascots. I haven't seen any mentioned in this thread. We need to have an intelligent national discourse about racism. Defining something as racist when it doesn't affect you (thereby projecting your offense onto others), pointing out something that wasn't considered racist two centuries ago but could legitimately be considered racist now, and providing examples of team mascots that no one considers racist as justification for not changing ones that actually are could be is so not helpful it's borderline counterproductive.

I really wish the problem is that we're dividing reality into philosophical divisions. Instead, the problem is so many of us are creating our own realities instead of dividing the one that actually exists.

We're so divided we can't agree on what's real anymore.

[wufan]

You seem to be addressing a highly nuanced situation with absolutes.

So let's be honest with ourselves. Is this country racist to its core? It used to be, but not anymore.

I think it was previously more racist, but not as a core fundamental value. As evidence, blacks people could be freed. Slavery was outlawed in certain areas from the beginning. Genocide wasn’t a thing; even with native Americans, it was conquest, not eradication on a national scale. We’re those things horrible and bad? Yep. We’re they racist? Yep. Was it a core value that by genetics that some were better than others? Not a national core value, though many individuals and groups did believe that. So I would say you are the one not being nuanced in your discussion.

[wufan]

Are there still echoes and imprints of its racist past? It's difficult to successfully argue that there aren't without seeming either tone deaf or completely ignorant. Those seem like obvious answers, at least to me.

There are inequities left over from Jim Crow, red-lining and block-busting, and from single family homes that disproportionately impacted black people. We’ve ended two of the three. Anyone that was directly impacted by these unjust laws should be compensated.