Shockers v Northern Iowa (Friday) and Drake (Sunday)

[Shox1979]

Amazing how some and wishing failure on our ladies,and delighting in their lack of success on the shockernet "fan" forum....smh

I didn't see anyone wishing failure on our ladies mum. I see some people who want the lady's to be successful but aren't fans of our coaching staff. And I see people frustrated with our play and realistic about the season outlook. We aren't gonna repeat as valley champs. Regular season or tourney. It's just not in the cards with this group. I guess I could be mr super positive and say we could put things together and make a huge run, win 14 straight in valley play, but nobody, based on our first 4 games in valley play would be in their right mind thinking that.

[shockerfanmas]

I didn't see anyone wishing failure on our ladies mum. I see some people who want the lady's to be successful but aren't fans of our coaching staff. And I see people frustrated with our play and realistic about the season outlook. We aren't gonna repeat as valley champs. Regular season or tourney. It's just not in the cards with this group. I guess I could be mr super positive and say we could put things together and make a huge run, win 14 straight in valley play, but nobody, based on our first 4 games in valley play would be in their right mind thinking that.

Put me in the category that would like to see the ladies succeed but can't stand the coaching staff, at all. Not only do I want to see the ladies succeed, I want to see a new coaching staff, ASAP.

[Mr. Obvious]

Put me in the category that would like to see the ladies succeed but can't stand the coaching staff, at all. Not only do I want to see the ladies succeed, I want to see a new coaching staff, ASAP.

Ditto +1

[1972Shocker]

Our first half tonight beats a lot of the teams, but we couldn't maintain that pressure, and fouls limited us, and we couldn't buy a basket for a long time.

That is the silver lining from this game. Granted Drake seemed pretty disinterested in playing any defense at all in the 1st half but yes, IF the Shocks can sustain that level of play for a full game, they can beat most of the teams in the Valley this year. At some point I think we will start seeing a more sustained level of performance from the Shocks but right now predicting how this team will perform from quarter to quarter is next to impossible. I have to think that this inexperienced team will continue to figure things out and at least gradually improve over the remainder of the year. We'll see.

[1972Shocker]

I think we pick off Illinois State and maybe a few others at home. I don't see us winning on the road. Especially against anybody picked above us.

I think the Shocks can beat Illinois State, Bradley and Evansville at home and I think the Shocks can take Bradley and Evansville on the Road. They might be able to squeeze out another win or 2 at home. Of course, that assumes they will avoid those 20% shooting halves that have plagued them so far in Valley games leading to paltry 45.5 ppg scoring average in their 4 Valley games.

[flyingMoose]

RPIs from the NCAA for our perusal ...

85 Drake
113 Southern Illinois
126 Missouri State
128 Northern Iowa
130 Loyola
262 Indiana State
264 Bradley
288 Evansville
298 Shockers
337 Illinois State

[1972Shocker]

RPIs from the NCAA for our perusal ...

85 Drake
113 Southern Illinois
126 Missouri State
128 Northern Iowa
130 Loyola
262 Indiana State
264 Bradley
288 Evansville
298 Shockers
337 Illinois State

Obviously the Valley, which ranks 21 out of 32 conferences, will be a one-bid league again this year. Last year the Shocks were 29-4 after winning the Valley (at 17-1) and winning the Valley Tournament. They had an RPI of around 39 and were rewarded with a #13 seed and a trip to the West coast to play Cal. It will be interesting to see what the Valley Tournament champion has in store for them this year.

Could be worse I suppose. The 10-team SWAC has an average RPI of 289 (vs 203 for the Valley).

[mumdaddy316]

The Coaching staff has had success the last three years,consistent valley champs and ncaa tourney bids. People may not like the way things are ran or how ppl do them but you cant argue with results. Basketball isnt for everyone,u have to be mentally tough and able to take constructive criticism. Do u think Pat Summit,Geno Aueriema, or Kim Mulkey and playing pattie cake with there players and catering to their emotions and needs??? Smh no,they taught,motivated, and got results. We have talent here,they and getting healthy and beginning to gel together. I for one cant wait for the turn around,these are great ladies to be around and the want to get better. I know Coach Adams and staff are doing there best to make this happen. Also....who would replace her if she were to leave? Thats a whole nother debate.

[Shox1979]

It doesn't mean we have to like how the results were achieved, or agree with the methods... Because I don't Mum. I'm not going to argue with you about it because it went way beyond being mentally tough or taking constructive criticism. I really don't care who replaces the staff honestly, I just want them replaced. Unfortunately I want the girls to succeed, but if and when that happens, then it means our staff probably stays.

[trshock]

Constructive criticism is about what specifically you need to do or not do. Toxic criticism is about who you are. This coach doesn't build character, she attacks it. It is her Achilles heel and the reason why any success will be short-lived. Our players deserve better.

[ShockTalk]

Basketball isnt for everyone,u have to be mentally tough and able to take constructive criticism.

Mum, I enjoy your posts and enthusiasm for the ladys' program. I also do not want to get myself or the program back into this distasteful discussion beyond making this one point.

If you truly believe what I have highlighted on your above post, after reviewing all that we had to make help make an opinion on what really transpired, then we can simply agree to disagree on what is and is not "constructive criticism".

[1972Shocker]

I really don't care who replaces the staff honestly, I just want them replaced. Unfortunately I want the girls to succeed, but if and when that happens, then it means our staff probably stays.

Actually having the team be successful is perhaps the best path to replacing the staff. Jody was clearly looking for a job upgrade the past two years and maybe would have secured that last year if the issues of bullying and abusive treatment of players had not arisen. I am sure she is now focused pretty hard on rehabilitating her image and if she can get the Shocker program back to the top of the Valley in 2 or 3 years then she may well be in a position to throw her hat back onto the coaching carousel and find that big job she covets (by the way there is nothing wrong with that). So the team being successful and the coaching staff moving on may go hand-in-hand.

For this to happen HCJA will need to learn the difference between constructive criticism and destructive criticism and abusive treatment of the players under her charge. That doesn't mean she can't be tough. We have plenty of tough coaches at WSU that seem to know where to draw the line between toughness and mean-spiritedness. Hopefully, Jody will be able to figure that out as well. She is very fortunate to have the opportunity to try to change her ways at WSU with a very lucrative contract. Just ask Chris Jans whose transgressions at Bowling Green IMHO were far less egregious than what transpired in the WSU women's program.

If she can do this I believe she can once again have a program that can compete at the top of the Missouri Valley Conference.

[WuShock16]

I wonder if she would be able to use the Pat Summitt connection to try to get another job this offseason.

Mark was able to get a "better" job even after a disappointing season in 2006-07. Granted, he was also never accused of being a bully. So he had that going for him, which was nice.

Unfortunately for Jody, she has been accused of being a bully and is having a DISASTROUS season in 2015-16. So she doesn't have that going for her, which is not so nice.

[1972Shocker]

I wonder if she would be able to use the Pat Summitt connection to try to get another job this offseason.

Mark was able to get a "better" job even after a disappointing season in 2006-07. Granted, he was also never accused of being a bully. So he had that going for him, which was nice.

Unfortunately for Jody, she has been accused of being a bully and is having a DISASTROUS season in 2015-16. So she doesn't have that going for her, which is not so nice.

Obviously the Pat Summit bloodline is of value. However, considering Pat's current health issues (Alzheimer's) I am not sure how much that will mean at this point. Maybe if she was applying for a job at a Valley level school it would carry some weight. Perhaps not so much at a P-5 school. A couple of Pat's protégé's, Holly Warlick at Tennessee and Nikki Caldwell Fargas at LSU are reportedly under fire at least from their respective fan bases. Interestingly enough Jane Albright is part of Pat's coaching tree. She was a GA under Summit for 2 seasons from 1981-83.

IMHO Jody has a pretty sweet deal financially at WSU so I think it will pretty much take a solid P-5 opportunity for her to move on.

[shockerfanmas]

The Coaching staff has had success the last three years,consistent valley champs and ncaa tourney bids. People may not like the way things are ran or how ppl do them but you cant argue with results. Basketball isnt for everyone,u have to be mentally tough and able to take constructive criticism. Do u think Pat Summit,Geno Aueriema, or Kim Mulkey and playing pattie cake with there players and catering to their emotions and needs??? Smh no,they taught,motivated, and got results. We have talent here,they and getting healthy and beginning to gel together. I for one cant wait for the turn around,these are great ladies to be around and the want to get better. I know Coach Adams and staff are doing there best to make this happen. Also....who would replace her if she were to leave? Thats a whole nother debate.

No, but I also guarantee none of those other coaches allowed an assistant coach to grab a player by the neck, pin her against the wall, and get away with it. There's a fine line, and you don't seem to understand that. Apparently you think all is fair as long as the team is winning, but I don't. It's a shame HCJA is still the head coach, and I will never, ever respect her again. If you want to, that's your choice. There's hundreds of better coaches out there than HCJA. Heck, I'd take the Hutch Coach John Ontjes in a second.