Wichita State looking into women’s basketball transfers

[1972Shocker]

To much we don't know, I think the tape tells us all we need to know!

The audio recording in and of itself raises very serious concerns. However, none of the 8 players who have left the past two years were even in that meeting at that time. They are all players that have come and gone since the time of that audio recording. So we do not have their stories at all although some of that was reported by players and parents on the deleted thread. But I assume Wichita State is aware of those allegations from the "listening tour".

I had always kind of "assumed" that this all started with the hiring of Dana Eikenberg for the 2011-12 season. I was very surprised Jody would be allowed to hire a coach that had left the SIU program in shambles (and Jody was part of that staff as well) under very similar allegations of abusive treatment of players. However, after reading Sam Smith's account of her experiences from Jody's 1st year it appears this has gone on from Day 1 of Jody's tenure to some degree or other. It could be once DE was on staff and Kristy Guffey was pushed out the door the terrorists had full control. Then once Jody survived the 2012 grievance session with only minor repercussions she probably felt that her "style" had been endorsed by the WSU athletic administration and then when she was awarded the big raise and golden parachute after the 2013-14 season she probably felt untouchable (which appears to not be too far from the truth).

Yes, there is still a lot we don't know and it's possible there is a lot we may not really want to know but I think we know enough that something is rotten in Denmark.

The really odd thing about Wichita State's conclusion was they seemed to more or less say half the players said they were mistreated and half the players said they were not mistreated so we can't take the allegations of mistreatment seriously. How illogical is that. Especially, in light of the fact that one of the allegations against Jody was that she would pit one player or group of players against another player or group of players and use players to help her carry out her abuse. This just does not seem logical to me. The fact that she didn't abuse or mistreat some players doesn't mean she didn't abuse or mistreat other players. How many incidents of abuse is enough to be called to account. 20? 15? 10? I have a number in mind. How about 1.

As Kate Fagan of ESPN (who played college basketball at Colorado) said in her recent article good coaches are tough but they are not abusive and the difference is not a thin line. It is a wide-gap. In the case of Jody Adams it would appear to be a gap about the size of the Grand Canyon.

What has been going on in this program is simply not right and it needs to be made right.

[RoyalShock]

Indeed @1972Shocker:, the line is not thin. The thickness of the line is defined by how much a coach respects his/her players as people, as individuals. That is why you don't hear these allegations against coaches like Marshall and Lamb. It is clear to me that Adams does not value or respect some or all of her players as people.

In my experience, many people in high level positions tend to have various degrees of sociopathic tendencies. Some do better than others at realizing this and finding ways to mitigate or obscure it. While I'm no psychologist it isn't difficult to see sociopathic traits in Adams. It's probably why she hired Dana. She didn't see anything wrong with how Dana treated her players.

[Mr. Obvious]

Thank you 1972 for not mentioning me. I'm the so-called astute one. Yes, I played or sat for the greatest men's coach in history, my wife played D-I and as she said, nobody cares about women's sports. She's not bitter, just knows where the money flows. I am not from Wichita, am an old former player, and coach of both boys and girls as I've said for years. I got interested in WSU womens hoops 7 years ago or so, when Tennessee alum, Jody arrived, as I travel the country and have seen mens and womens hoops all over. I no longer do my walks at Koch, as I'm appalled with all that has happened. I'm not a lawyer or know what the money issues are with keeping Jody or letting her go; I do know I have gotten to know many players and they trust me, because, I played a long time ago, I have coached and support their hard work and effort. I will say this. I believe Alex has made her Phoenix Mercury team; first ever at WSU. If she speaks out and supports Jody and states the program gave her a boost to where she is. Case closed. If she stays silent. Her silence to me, speaks volumes. What pro would not ask all to support their school. Cleanthony Early has spoken about WSU in his NBA interviews as the greatest thing that ever happened to him and he doubts it could be replicated. What will Alex say or not. Everyone wants proof. Alex has been silent, so has Kelsey, the winningest player in WSU history. If Alex and kelsey speak out and tell all of us we are out of line, or go public in some way and support their former WSU coach. Again, Case closed and stop the nonsense. They remain silent, to date and that tells me; an old guy whose been around the hoop circuit a lot!!

If I'm not mistaken, Alex' 2 roommates left?

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

If I'm not mistaken, Alex' 2 roommates left?

Correct. Is there a point to your question/statement, Mr. Obvious?

[ShockTalk]

Indeed @1972Shocker:, the line is not thin. The thickness of the line is defined by how much a coach respects his/her players as people, as individuals. That is why you don't hear these allegations against coaches like Marshall and Lamb. It is clear to me that Adams does not value or respect some or all of her players as people.

In my experience, many people in high level positions tend to have various degrees of sociopathic tendencies. Some do better than others at realizing this and finding ways to mitigate or obscure it. While I'm no psychologist it isn't difficult to see sociopathic traits in Adams. It's probably why she hired Dana. She didn't see anything wrong with how Dana treated her players.

During Jody's last year at SIU, she became the coach players went to because they couldn't talk or get along with Dana and it was indicated in newspaper reports that the players liked Jody. Dana was let go the following year. This is why I was so confused as to why Jody would later hire Dana at WSU and questioned the hiring at the time. Then came the rumors, yet, Jody promoted Dana from the bottom of the "coaching ladder" to the top. What followed didn't surprise.

Now with Dana gone and what has followed, I believe Jody never was the players' coach at SIU it seemed, but the "good cop" to Dana's "bad cop" who could find things out for Dana. So, I agree with your assessment.

IMO, winning has snuffed out caution as far as ADES is concerned. Like it or not, women's basketball is still 4th in the pecking order behind men's basketball, baseball, and volleyball. This is not to make light of the program, and, personally, I've been to more women's basketball games than volleyball. However, I can not understand the risk taken that could give all of WSU athletics a black eye and unwanted press. The main thrust of the latest listening tour is the implementation of a psychologist, which is BS, because we find in the 2012 audio tape, the players already mention a psychologist. Maybe the outcome of the 2012 meeting with ES was that much more caution has been applied when it comes to physical problems of the student athletes. Unfortunately, the latest "investigation" has merely thrown a rug over the rest of the problems until Jody can find a way out of town. For her to do so, she will need to keep a low profile, so maybe that's another gain. Too bad it could not have been better addressed earlier along with not having to wait around due to the recent contract enhancements.

[ShockdaWorld]

For a short time, there was a show on television called "Coaching Bad" or something like that. Ray Lewis (yes,it surprised me too) and some other sports psychologist guy had a group of 7 or 8 coaches who were abusive in one way or another, so much so that their own children and other relatives refused to be coached by them. The whole point of the show was to teach them the proper way to deal with specific situations as well as retraining their minds to put the safety (mental and physical) of their players as their first priority, followed by teaching, coaching, etc. I'm assuming based on the majority of posts here that those who are not on HCJA's side that the prevailing feeling is that the right thing to happen is for her to no longer be employed at WSU (and I'm not disagreeing with that at all). If termination ends up not being an immediate option based on contracts, lack of evidence, $500k, or whatever it may be, would it make people feel better about the situation if she was to get some kind of similar counseling (and maybe anger management as well)? I know it would NOT make up for what has happened, but along with a sincere apology to ALL of her past and present student athletes, at least it would show that she realized her mistake and was trying to improve.

[1972Shocker]

I can not understand the risk taken that could give all of WSU athletics a black eye and unwanted press.

Are you referring to the risk taken by allowing Jody to hire Dana Eikenberg (which I assume was approved by Becky Endicott and/or Eric Sexton)? Or are you referring to some other risk?

If it was the former, I recall that there were more than a few eyebrows raised and concerns expressed on ShockerNet when that happened. It became even a little more alarming when Kristy Guffey was pushed out the door at the end of the season following DE's hiring which makes you wonder if that wasn't that plan at the time DE was initially hired as the DOBO.

[1972Shocker]

would it make people feel better about the situation if she was to get some kind of similar counseling (and maybe anger management as well)? I know it would NOT make up for what has happened, but along with a sincere apology to ALL of her past and present student athletes, at least it would show that she realized her mistake and was trying to improve.

I think that absolutely should be requirement of her retaining her job, but it may be to late for that since the negotiations with her attorney's to retain her have already concluded. Not only should she be required to seek professional counseling as a condition of employment the cost of that counseling should be on her nickel. Unfortunately, since the negotiations have concluded I don't expect that to happen.

A learned person recently told me that bullies were often bullied themselves and that who knows what Jody may have gone through in her formative years. I think Jody would do well to voluntarily seek such counseling for her own long-term well being and benefit. Whether she stays at Wichita State or not.

Doesn't do much for her past sins but I think some honest contrition and remorse towards those she has mistreated would go a long way towards diffusing the anger and frustration of those who feel like they have been mistreated and ignored. I could easily be wrong about that and it's not like Jody and WSU have not had numerous opportunities to do just that. Perhaps it is past the point of no return for something like that.

[shockmonster]

For a short time, there was a show on television called "Coaching Bad" or something like that. Ray Lewis (yes,it surprised me too) and some other sports psychologist guy had a group of 7 or 8 coaches who were abusive in one way or another, so much so that their own children and other relatives refused to be coached by them. The whole point of the show was to teach them the proper way to deal with specific situations as well as retraining their minds to put the safety (mental and physical) of their players as their first priority, followed by teaching, coaching.

I certainly don't know everything about player injuries and maybe the girls were driven too hard but most coaches I know stay away from injuries and allow doctors to decide if students can play. Now how soon a pregnant player needs to sit before coming back is beyond HCGM's pay grade but I've detected moments when Gregg has been annoyed by a players injuries keeping them from playing. He has made it clear that he stays out of the training room and relies on doctors to hold players out. However, he has called some players out because of a lack of toughness and has been outwardly annoyed by how much time they've spent in the training room.

[ShockTalk]

Are you referring to the risk taken by allowing Jody to hire Dana Eikenberg (which I assume was approved by Becky Endicott and/or Eric Sexton)? Or are you referring to some other risk?

If it was the former, I recall that there were more than a few eyebrows raised and concerns expressed on ShockerNet when that happened. It became even a little more alarming when Kristy Guffey was pushed out the door at the end of the season following DE's hiring which makes you wonder if that wasn't that plan at the time DE was initially hired as the DOBO.

No, but I personally thought it was a risk.

I was addressing ADES and the department. From a public appearance at minimum, to now allow Jody to get off without any admission or apology after a second major review, which might have been a major step in the right direction to defusing further action by parents/players, seemed to be high risk from an image standpoint. Particularly when ADES knew an audio tape existed from the 2012 meeting and had not been "leaked". Also, it was probably somewhat careless, IMO, to add the parachute clause without any wording that would negate it if a similar situation to 2012 arose. It gives the appearance that Jody was in complete control over ADES and he wanted the winning to continue at too high of cost. The warning signs were there, including the hiring of Dana.

[1972Shocker]

No, but I personally thought it was a risk.

I was addressing ADES and the department. From a public appearance at minimum, to now allow Jody to get off without any admission or apology after a second major review, which might have been a major step in the right direction to defusing further action by parents/players, seemed to be high risk from an image standpoint. Particularly when ADES knew an audio tape existed from the 2012 meeting and had not been "leaked". Also, it was probably somewhat careless, IMO, to add the parachute clause without any wording that would negate it if a similar situation to 2012 arose. It gives the appearance that Jody was in complete control over ADES and he wanted the winning to continue at too high of cost. The warning signs were there, including the hiring of Dana.

Agreed. I personally don't think ADES is a win at all cost kind of guy, although I could be wrong about that, but as you say the appearance and perception of win at all costs is there even if that is not the reality. But if that is an accurate assessment than Eric may have gotten snookered by Jody and her attorney in negotiating that deal. You see it all the time though. It is easy to be magnanimous with other people's money. Even more so when you aren't likely to be held accountable for your screw-ups.

[1972Shocker]

Indeed @1972Shocker, the line is not thin. The thickness of the line is defined by how much a coach respects his/her players as people, as individuals. That is why you don't hear these allegations against coaches like Marshall and Lamb. It is clear to me that Adams does not value or respect some or all of her players as people.

In my experience, many people in high level positions tend to have various degrees of sociopathic tendencies. Some do better than others at realizing this and finding ways to mitigate or obscure it. While I'm no psychologist it isn't difficult to see sociopathic traits in Adams. It's probably why she hired Dana. She didn't see anything wrong with how Dana treated her players.

I wouldn't really know about sociopathic tendencies but there is no doubt in my mind the Jody Adams probably truly believes that everything she has done with and to these girls was beneficial and has made them better basketball players and better people and those that have departed the program are missing out on the benefit of her tutelage because they just were not tough enough to allow her to push them into the "red zone".

[wusphlash]

I think ADES will quietly be absorbed back into a less public administrative job similar to whence he came.

What's one of the common threads between Jody Adams and Judy Favor? Becky Endicot. I believe she facilitates this kind of behavior.

Jody will be gone one way or another. I don't believe she can sustain much support because of these revelations. Nor do I believe she will be able to recruit championship level players. I don't see any MVC trophies in the foreseeable future.

I think there is a coach out there who's somewhere between Jody Adams and Jane Albright that can win championships and mold character.

[shocker_67]

I think that absolutely should be requirement of her retaining her job, but it may be to late for that since the negotiations with her attorney's to retain her have already concluded. Not only should she be required to seek professional counseling as a condition of employment the cost of that counseling should be on her nickel. Unfortunately, since the negotiations have concluded I don't expect that to happen.

A learned person recently told me that bullies were often bullied themselves and that who knows what Jody may have gone through in her formative years. I think Jody would do well to voluntarily seek such counseling for her own long-term well being and benefit. Whether she stays at Wichita State or not.

Doesn't do much for her past sins but I think some honest contrition and remorse towards those she has mistreated would go a long way towards diffusing the anger and frustration of those who feel like they have been mistreated and ignored. I could easily be wrong about that and it's not like Jody and WSU have not had numerous opportunities to do just that. Perhaps it is past the point of no return for something like that.

I wonder if the parents felt like it was "salt in the wound" when administration did their PR spin after their announcement.....to have Greg Marshall speak and then to have a men's player speak seems like they are trying to use the success of the men's program to reflect Jody in a better light......I would think that tarnishes the men's program and am surprised that GM even got involved.

[vancedave56]

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