Shockers Provide Cure For SIU Ailments

[trufan]

And remember, even at the current decline in attendance, the numbers are greater than during previous coaching regimes.

[1972Shocker]

You keep talking about Smith's recruits. All of Smith's recruits are long gone. This team is made up of Jane's recruits and is dominated by Senior's and Junior's that were given a lot of playing time in their Freshman and Sophomore years.

If Darryl was able to go 74-70 with his D-2 recruits then he must have been a pretty good coach, just a lousy recruiter I guess (although I would not say that to Angela Buckner).

On the other hand Jane is 37-70 with her recruits and a holdover D-2 Smith recruit (Antionette Wells) over the past 4 years. So Jane has done much worse with the D-1 talent that she has recruited than Darryl achieved with his D-2 recruits.

Darryl's record, his last two year's was 28-29. Not great, but better than the 17-35 Jane has put so far over the last two years.

Yet, somehow Jane deserves the benefit of the doubt and a second chance, but Darryl Smith did not deserve the same consideration (and maybe he didn't, I don't have all the facts behnid his firing).

I think this will be my last post on the topic of Jane's job status. I have clearly laid out my position based on Jane's performance and the lack of visiblity (my view) of any immediate improvement over the next couple of years.

If Jane is retained, then I wish her luck. Not sure it is fair to her to retain her for another year without a real commitment for the future so that she can at least have the appearance of longevity for recruiting purposes.

We will find out a month from now where Jim Schaus stands and we can all go from there.

[1972Shocker]

And remember, even at the current decline in attendance, the numbers are greater than during previous coaching regimes.

The actual attendance this year is not even close to the actual attendance in Darryl Smith's last year which was played at Kansas Newman.

I don't know where the paid attendance is coming from, perhaps from some corporate sponsors who never use or can find users for the tickets.
It's possible that financial support will continue, but expect actual attendance to continue to decline. If the no-show support is coming from inidividual season ticket holders than I think the paid attendance will begin to drop significantly.

[1972Shocker]

Once the winning starts, fans will be back...

Now that, I can agree with. Actually, it would not even take that much winning to get me back.

Show me some steady improvement from the beginning of the year to the end of the year and from one year to the next.

Show me some entertaining, competitve team basketball, both at home and on the road.

Show me you can correct and improve on team and individual player weaknesses (such as excessive turnovers).

Show me continuing upgrades in recruiting.

Do all that and the wins will come. So far, Jane has not shown me those things so if she is retained I am in a show me mode.

[molly jabali]

i'm exhausted reading all that stuff.

my bottom lines are these:
* in most cases, hoops programs are not 5 year turnarounds...IF you recruit well.again, look at osu.
* there is NO pizzazz for the program.
* i disagree with the assertion that kstate WILL get all the good kansas girls...i think they will with jane here, but not for a new coach.
* finally...if you can't win in womens' ball in the valley...you can't win.it simply RIGHT NOW is not a very good league.

the program is 'stagnant'...and smithson was removed when the men were stagnant.

[SpanglerFan316]

Once the winning starts, fans will be back, and in looking at her history, come in DROVES (1972 Shocker provided the attendance numbers from Wisconsin recently). Every program has a natural decline in attendance when there are many losses at all. It is pretty universal that attendance follows a teams's record. Once Val Siemens is eligible, and these current freshmen have more strength, I would anticipate the wins to start coming...and the attendance to follow...

As long as Jane is coach, I will only go to WBB games where I know one of the players on the other team. Jane's offensive style is, to me, terrible; I can't stand to watch!! We could win the Valley and I wouldn't go; my time is valuable and I would rather watch (1) WSU baseball (2) WSU volleyball (3) WSU men's basketball (4) WSU tennis ETC.

[wsubballfan]

trufan, thank you for making my point again. Comparing Kiki to Parker is exactly what is wrong with Jane's approach.

I find it hard to believe you are against putting a more balanced attack on the floor. In fact, put yourself in the opposing coach's shoes, wouldn't you just swarm Kiki if you played us? Not because it stifles Kiki but because it stifles our coach.

She has stated on post-game radio shows that WSU will not win without Kiki on the floor. What message is that sending to the other players, our opponents? We won without Kiki on the floor several times in the only winning season we had under Jane.

I am not opposed to Kiki getting touches in a balanced attack based on the opponent we are playing. I am surprised by predefined numbers - after all I would think the emphasis would be more on shooting percentages than making sure you get a certain number of shots.

And, to be fair, until she publicly stated she "got it now", I was always in Jane's court. I am just horrified that after such a public announcement and a win that highlighted teamwork (that resulted in Kiki's season high), we heard/read what we heard from her and we saw/heard what we did on the road which was a return to what appears to be Jane's style.

And, let me be clear, I have yet to call for Jane's dismissal. But, I would like to see some proof that she "gets it now".

Continuing to play the seniors past the point there is any hope for this season will be my measuring stick. She passed on that opportunity last year. But, if she really cares about the program, she'll pull that trigger this year. It may sound harsh for the seniors but it is time to right the ship if she is going to. I won't even get into the argument of whether the underclassmen should have been taking those minutes to date. But, if she can't get this year fixed, there is no reason to not start fixing next year.

[WSUfan1975]

Trufan,

I wanted to quickly correct something you posted;

To allow one coach who walks into a program with one of the All-Time Greats of Missouri Valley Basketball (Kazcka) 5 years and then to allow the next coach (a PROVEN commodity) only the same 5 years after walking in to a program which is in shambles.....just is not fair or right...

Smith didn't walk into a program with Kaczka. He recruited Kaczka, who by the way was not an outstanding high school player, and developed her into the player that she was. She wasn't even going to be a starter until Smith developed her.

[SHOCKS10]

I don't have exact attenance quotes, but I know Kansas Newman holds 1200 people, and they were sold out every game, under smith. That is 1200 actual people in the stands, no room available, not paid no show tickets. I can only remember the season before that, when they went to the NIT, and I would bet there were more than 1200 avg actual attendance. The problem is WSU now counts all tickets sold, and I can tell you I have 4 tickets that haven't been used this year, and I am sure they were counted in the attendance figures. I only keep them just in case they get a good coach, and win, I will have good seats. I know one game several years ago there were 250 people in the stands, we counted them, not much else to watch, and the attendance was announced around 1500. Therefore it is not good to use attendance figures, as a comparision, because two different methods of counting have been used over the years, which doesn't reflect the actual interest in WBB. I know on the news when the pan the arena, it sure looks like you could sit just about anywhere you wanted, and be comfortable. I know on the coaches show I haven't heard a caller in years, other than for free tickets, and they had a tough time getting someone to call in for those, I don't know how shane can talk for a solid hour, about WBB at WSU.

[WSUfan1975]

Very true...I was at the $1.00 game when they played Evansville and the attendance that was announced was MUCH higher than the amount of people that were actually there. To be frank it was mostly a bunch of young children in attendance and the adults and students that were there were extremely quiet and seemed bored. They can't even get people to come watch them for $1.00?!?!?!

That's the last game I went to and there were a handful of former players in attendance that seemed to be getting more attention than the game itself. Jennifer Kaczka, Angela Buckner, Alicia Cade, and Jessica Smith were all there as well as the former Assistant Coach from the Darryl Smith Era, Amy Bourcy. Obviously they were all there for Kaczka's induction in the hall of fame which happened that weekend, but it was good to see them all.

[rrshock]

I haven't been to a women's game for a long time now. I frankly don't think it's worth the price in gas or for a ticket. I probably wouldn't go even if someone drove me there, gave me a free ticket and whatever else could happen.

This program is going nowhere but straight into the abyss. I would really like to go watch a game someday, but refuse to until they actually show that they could compete with a good HS team.

[WSUfan1975]

This program is going nowhere but straight into the abyss. I would really like to go watch a game someday, but refuse to until they actually show that they could compete with a good HS team.

FUNNY!!!! :D

[trufan]

I have reviewed my previous posts and responses to them, and it is clear to me that I did not communicate a number of things well.
I feel that Daryl Smith recruited fairly well, at least initially. In fact, WSUfan1975 pointed out that Jennifer Kaczka was one of his recruits. (What a GREAT one!) Because she was a freshman during his initial season here, i had assumed that she was signed by Hargrove just before she left...but assumptions can be very wrong, as we all know. Thanks for pointing that out. The class that he recruited who were seniors during Albright's first season here was also a good class. When I spoke of DII and NAIA level players that he recruited, it was NOT meant to be a description of that class. (Buckner, Dixon/Dennis, April Banks, Tisharria Huggins, and Michelle Pettigrew...did I forget anyone?) Even his later classes had at least one great one, in Antionette Wells. In fairness to him, we should also acknowledge that no one had any idea that Rochelle Busenitz would be unable to complete her collegiate career due to injury. I think that my previous posts made it appear that i had nothing good to say about Smith. That was not my intention. I did want to make the point that there were 4 0r 5 mis-steps in recruiting during his tenure. (The players who ended up moving down a level or 2 to play..and Candace Burns.) The effects of those mis-steps were not observed during his stay here, since he inherited good players from Hargrove and his early classes had the good personnel listed above, as well as others. The effect of those recruiting mis-steps was to be felt after the "Buckner class", as i will call it, graduated. The ill effects were to be observed during Albright's tenure, as she "inherited" the mis-steps.
My points about the Buckner class were that: 1) obviously, they graduated quickly...without much talent left in the program in the underclasses to follow them.
2) Even before they graduated, they did not live up to their potential, as witnessed by their "melt-down" during Smith's last year. They simply didn't seem to "buy-in" to the idea that basketball is a team sport...when they were playing for Smith OR when they were playing for Albright.
Then my point about Albright deserving another year out of fairness might be more clear if i stated it in terms of a race...say a 100 yard dash. Lets say that the goal of building a program is a 100 yard dash. One coach, Daryl Smith, is allowed to start at the starting blocks on the zero yard line. He had a full complement of Division I players to start with. Another coach, Jane Albright, is asked to start 30 yards behind the starting line. She has a senior class of adequate athletes, but who won't "buy-in". She also is hampered by the next several classes which are blighted with the presence of 4-5 division II or NAIA type players. Most people would agree that it would not be fair to expect both of them to arrive at the finish line/have a program built within the same time frame....thus, Albright should be allowed more time than Smith was allowed to make things happen.
I hope that makes things clearer...I know that many people have already made their minds up, but i hope you can at least understand my point about fairness, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

[molly jabali]

trufan,
in many ways a reasonable, and calm, post.i really think we ALL wish there was something great to hang on janes' time here. i simply think there is nothing THAT RELATES TO WINS/LOSSES.has she been a good ambassador? certainly. has she sought help from other coaches? apparently. are we seing measureable results. i think not.

a good example as to what CAN happen...my oft mentioned comparison with okie state. when their staff came in FOUR years ago,to my mind they were in much worse shape than smith 'alledgedly' lft wsu...and in a MUCH TOUGHER LEAGUE. the end result of a good hire coaching change/ they are amazing...and only going to get better.

[SubGod22]

I would have LOVED to see Jane have success here as she's a great woman and I really do like her. So far, she hasn't earned anymore time and that makes me sad.