It's time for a new Softball stadium...

[ShockTalk]

This is great, UNLESS it comes at the expense of baseball and basketball.

And there it is, Doc (see Shocker82/85's post).

Of course, it comes at their expense (can or will baseball even make money). Granted, you have to have X number of sports to be in a conference and thus, similar number of sports (or athletes) in women's sports. Some people want to support other sports, but they won't if the university doesn't put any more dollars than they absolutely have to.

Where do you draw the line? Do you let the other sports "just hang on". How little $s will a conference let a school get away with regarding other sports.

If one hasn't noticed, it's men's basketball that has giveth and also taketh away. Because men's basketball has strapped the athletic department, do we just tell other sports there is no money for them?

I don't have the answer, but I do know that I like having a good number of quality athletic programs at my alma mater. We now have a vibrant campus, I believe that all the athletic programs should be a part of that. Particularly the ones that are doing very well. Some athletic departments got improvements when the men's basketball was rolling. Those that waited for their turn at improved facilities should get theirs, especially if they have done well. We had an idiot AD that was supported by an idiot (and very short, termed president). I believe we have an excellent AD and should trust him to know what needs to be done.

[Shocker82/85]

I don’t think softball has been told no. $2 million has already been committed for items that Saal mentioned including coaches’ contracts, lights, playing surface, batting cages and home dugout. Basketball has to be fixed or there will have to be across the program cuts because men’s basketball is the sole money maker. I don’t think basketball is taking away, but it certainly isn’t subsidizing the other programs near as much. Unfortunately, softball has very little upside for increasing revenue which makes this size of investment difficult to justify in my view.

[barry1305]

This is long overdue. This facility upgrade will allow this program to take the next step to becoming a top 25 program.

[SubGod22]

Softball has earned an investment. They've been a borderline top 25 program for a few years now. They're the most successful program, outside of maybe T&F, in the department over the past few years. There's already been a couple million in donations set aside for this.

Softball will probably never be a massive money maker, but it is a sport growing in popularity and we have had games where we've had to turn fans away due to capacity issues. With that said, we continue to recruit well and this give softball an opportunity to expand upon that as they'll have much better facilities to recruit to. I know Coach B is excited.

As to men's basketball, that will mostly be taken care of when a new coach is brought in. There are improvements that could be made or added to CKA, but I wouldn't put them as high on the need level right now. And I sincerely doubt that most of the people giving or willing to give to softball are diverting funds from basketball to do so. Let's be honest, funds being diverted from basketball are because basketball has been poorly run for a few years and people are pissed. They'll have their money when change is made.

Personally, I think softball has much more upside than women's basketball here. I don't think they're ever going to be in the black on their own, or anywhere close to it. Softball might not either, but I think they have the potential to be much closer to revenue neutral than basketball does, and they have a winning culture which is something lacking at WSU right now.

We also know from Saal's previous stops that he's known to be a fantastic fundraiser. He's going to help find those that want to give, or convince them that they want to give, to whichever program he targets them for.

This upgraded facility will also signal to the community that we're serious about softball and that alone could also help increase some interest. Having a couple of All-American's doesn't hurt. This is absolutely the right time to try and capitalize off of the recent successes and publicity that the program and players have had.

Everyone knows men's basketball is king. That ship will be righted and the money will flow in due time. Sitting around and doing nothing elsewhere and waiting for that resurgence also doesn't make any sense.

We have plans and initiation of facility improvements for T&F coming, with the potential of soccer being added, and now softball. Again, I have zero complaints investing in facility improvements, long overdue, for the programs that actually have success. Women's basketball will mostly ride the coattails of men's basketball when it comes to facilities and such. If they earn something more specific to them at some point, so be it. But I don't think we should hold back the successful programs for one's that have shown little to no hope.

Maybe one day, we will have a volleyball/women's basketball facility. I like the idea, but mostly for VB. They generally draw better than WBB and are more likely to earn such a thing down the road.

If one of us could just win the lottery, most of this wouldn't even need to be debated lol.

[Kung Wu]

ADKS made a statement something along the lines of, "sports that are successful and meeting or exceeding goals will reap the reward for their success". I think that's an excellent policy as it creates healthy competition for the staff of each sport for the almighty dollar. That doesn't mean he won't focus on marquee sports, but the management of sports that are currently carrying us in a national spotlight should definitely get to ride the wave of the momentum they have created. That's how you create _long_ term success in each individual sport, which eventually should translate into many sports overall performing at a high level. Reward the sports that are already achieving and make sure they continue to do so, while others improve.

[1972Shocker]

Softball has earned an investment. They've been a borderline top 25 program for a few years now. They're the most successful program, outside of maybe T&F, in the department over the past few years. There's already been a couple million in donations set aside for this.

I don't think anyone is debating this point. The question is and always will be what makes the most financial and business sense for the athletic program as a whole. The other side of the coin to someone winning the lottery is that if we don't get men's basketball fixed and if the mega-donors don't step up than the entire athletic program will be affected. At this point none of these softball improvements are set in stone. The money will have to be there without hurting the overall athletic program and I think we would all agree Softball will never be able to carry the load for the overall program.

I think it is arguable at this point in time whether baseball or softball is a bigger financial drag on the athletic program. I am sure those numbers are somewhere but I suspect baseball loses more money than softball does at this point. But we need to support both programs to the best of our ability. What the best of our ability is remains to be seen.

When I first heard someone had made a large gift to softball I was kind of excited. I have always said that for volleyball/WBB to get a separate facility and for softball to get a new stadium it would probably take some mega donor who wanted to have a facility on campus named after them. When I saw the amount of the 2 donations, which I think are $700,000, I thought those are very nice gifts and much appreciated, however, when I saw the $17.5 million price tag on the softball facilities plan those gifts seemed relatively insignificant to the big picture.

Obviously, this is a very long-term oriented facilities master plan which is seemingly dependent on the mega donors stepping up in a big way. Perhaps ADKS, in his interactions with those donors is convinced they will step up. But it is also possible that that won't happen and that plan will have to be scaled back significantly.

That said I don't mind ADKS and the athletic department dreaming big. But at this point that is pretty much what this plan is -- a BIG dream. Will it come to fruition. That would be great and I might even commit some of my meager funds to it, However, I don't think I would bet any of my meager funds that his plan will be funded anywhere near what the say they need for this. Not sure it is in the cards anymore to think a program like WSU can keep up facility-wise with the P-5 conferences with their mega-football money.

Softball has earned and has received a nice investment. How much more can be done in a fiscally responsible way remains to be seen.

[shoxlax]

The numbers are all there to look at on the various sports in the financial reports. Multiple sports are “zero” revenue. Saal sees that and is why I think soccer may replace one or two of those in years to come. It is also no accident how many more home games we are playing this year. Team is worth watching and you have to try to increase revenue every chance you get.

[ShockerFever]

We’re a softball school.

[SubGod22]

We’re a softball school.

I've been saying that for a couple of years now.

Another reason to embrace the improvements.

But in all seriousness, this really is a fun team to watch and if they've found some solid, consistent pitching, they could make a lot more noise.

[barry1305]

I've been saying that for a couple of years now.

Another reason to embrace the improvements.

But in all seriousness, this really is a fun team to watch and if they've found some solid, consistent pitching, they could make a lot more noise.

And, having these facility upgrades will help get the pitching needed :)

[WuDrWu]

Yes, and if the K's dumped $100 mil into the coffers, men's basketball would be back in the top 25 in 2 years or less.

Look, I love to dream big. Without dreams and goals you're going to tread water at best. And sometimes you swing big and miss. And THAT'S ok too in my book. But it has to make sense.


And I don't know how exactly this makes sense unless unannounced items are also being addressed.

[barry1305]

Yes, and if the K's dumped $100 mil into the coffers, men's basketball would be back in the top 25 in 2 years or less.

Look, I love to dream big. Without dreams and goals you're going to tread water at best. And sometimes you swing big and miss. And THAT'S ok too in my book. But it has to make sense.


And I don't know how exactly this makes sense unless unannounced items are also being addressed.

Men’s Basketball will always be the money maker at WSU, but I don’t think it ever gets back to where it was no matter how much money your pour into it. Men’s Basketball will always pay for all the other sports at WSU. The point is, softball deserves those upgrades. Winning programs deserve facility upgrades. Win and get the bling. That is how it works.

[ShockTalk]

Apparently, the new renovation of the softball facility, due to its renderings, comes at the "expense" of the newly renovated (just opened Nov 15, 2021) outdoor facility that now includes 4 lighted pickleball courts, 2 half-court basketball courts and a Futsal court. My understanding is that these facilities are open to students and non-students.

My wife has not played there, buts knows others who do, and they say the courts are very popular with students and non-students. The "new" courts look very nice (see details in articles below).

Campus Activities & Recreation (wichita.edu)

Pickleball Courts now open – WSU News (wichita.edu)

[barry1305]

Apparently, the new renovation of the softball facility, due to its renderings, comes at the "expense" of the newly renovated (just opened Nov 15, 2021) outdoor facility that now includes 4 lighted pickleball courts, 2 half-court basketball courts and a Futsal court. My understanding is that these facilities are open to students and non-students.

My wife has not played there, buts knows others who do, and they say the courts are very popular with students and non-students. The "new" courts look very nice (see details in articles below).

Campus Activities & Recreation (wichita.edu)

Pickleball Courts now open – WSU News (wichita.edu)

There is a new YMCA and/or the Heskett is available.

[ShockTalk]

There is a new YMCA and/or the Heskett is available.

Not sure that you're referring to anything different than I am. The new outdoor pickleball/basketball courts I'm referring to are next to the Heskett on the east side. Those will be gone with the softball stadium expansion/renovation.