L.J. Rose to visit

[ShockTalk]

Can't ever have too many point guards. Just in case.

Last season sure illustrated that sentiment.

Quantity vs Quality?

Not second guessing HCGM, however, our problem last year was a reasonably quality backup to Fred without having to use Ron. No doubt injury and availability to play added to the problem, but Landry had no D-I experience and was a combo guard, Frankamp had limited D-I experience and when he did play it was mostly the 2, another freshman in Taylor who was thrown into the fire by necessity, and walk-on Simon.

From a D-I experience standpoint, we are without either an experienced D-I starting or back-up PG with Simon having the most. This is what Rose brings to the table. His problem may be his lukewarm quality getting countered by a high injury rate. If he's a walk-on, I'm all in. Not so much otherwise as he's may be just another of many who could do as well or better -- Smith, Landry, Frankamp, Reeves, Solomon, Simon. Add to this group Keyser and Allen (Allen may see more 3) and that's a lot guards, scholarships or not.

[ShockdaWorld]

Agreed, If we have a way to get him on campus, picking up a senior PG with decent numbers at a D1 school is worth the risk for one year.

I guess for me it depends on what that "way to get him on campus" would include. If it meant someone goes to Sunrise or someone walks on, I'm ok with that. If it means we lose a player, I'd rather keep what we have. On the other hand, I trust 3G, so I'm glad he's the one that makes those decisions.

[Stickboy46]

I guess for me it depends on what that "way to get him on campus" would include. If it meant someone goes to Sunrise or someone walks on, I'm ok with that. If it means we lose a player, I'd rather keep what we have. On the other hand, I trust 3G, so I'm glad he's the one that makes those decisions.

There's where my comment was headed ... without trying to get into that conversation. I don't want a 1 year player over any of our players, but I'm sure that 3G doesn't either. So that's one of many reason's why we pay him his salary.

[shocka khan]

Quantity vs Quality?

Not second guessing HCGM, however, our problem last year was a reasonably quality backup to Fred without having to use Ron. No doubt injury and availability to play added to the problem, but Landry had no D-I experience and was a combo guard, Frankamp had limited D-I experience and when he did play it was mostly the 2, another freshman in Taylor who was thrown into the fire by necessity, and walk-on Simon.

From a D-I experience standpoint, we are without either an experienced D-I starting or back-up PG with Simon having the most. This is what Rose brings to the table. His problem may be his lukewarm quality getting countered by a high injury rate. If he's a walk-on, I'm all in. Not so much otherwise as he's may be just another of many who could do as well or better -- Smith, Landry, Frankamp, Reeves, Solomon, Simon. Add to this group Keyser and Allen (Allen may see more 3) and that's a lot guards, scholarships or not.

Based on what I saw last season, he did not look as if he would fit our system well. He does have some experience, but it's not the kind of experience I feel we need. If we were to bring someone in for a year, I would like to see bringing someone in who will play within the team concept and also follow instructions from the coach.

Believe it or not, I saw Rose get yanked a couple of times last year for taking ill-advised shots (I saw him take a horrible shot, saw the coach get up and yell from the bench and then saw Rose get subbed out at the next play stoppage). There was something that he did that his coach did not like, even though he's obviously all into NBA-style (i.e. freelancing) play.

If someone wants a Caddy, you don't give them a Volkswagen with no suspension under it. I would hope that Greg wants a Caddy (for comfort and sanity) and would be willing to find a point guard who was a little less athletically talented and more cerebral so he could harness the talent he has and play under control.

Having said that, I'm totally behind whatever decision HCGM makes with respect to this young man and I wish him (Rose) well wherever he lands.

[mumdaddy316]

6'3 guard with experience,athleticism,power and b ball iq. Imo he wouldn't be allowed a visit if HCGM wasnt interested,also wouldn't be allowed a visit if coach an staff were all confident in our current group of guards....excempt (shamet,an frankamp).

[Wuzee]

Based on what I saw last season, he did not look as if he would fit our system well. He does have some experience, but it's not the kind of experience I feel we need. If we were to bring someone in for a year, I would like to see bringing someone in who will play within the team concept and also follow instructions from the coach.

Believe it or not, I saw Rose get yanked a couple of times last year for taking ill-advised shots (I saw him take a horrible shot, saw the coach get up and yell from the bench and then saw Rose get subbed out at the next play stoppage). There was something that he did that his coach did not like, even though he's obviously all into NBA-style (i.e. freelancing) play.

If someone wants a Caddy, you don't give them a Volkswagen with no suspension under it. I would hope that Greg wants a Caddy (for comfort and sanity) and would be willing to find a point guard who was a little less athletically talented and more cerebral so he could harness the talent he has and play under control.

Having said that, I'm totally behind whatever decision HCGM makes with respect to this young man and I wish him (Rose) well wherever he lands.

Based on last season? Dude, you're obviously not tracking with the facts here. HE PLAYED IN TWO GAMES LAST SEASON. TWO. 27 MINUTES OF COURT TIME FOR THE SEASON.

I don't know which point guard got yanked, but it likely wasn't Rose.

[Stickboy46]

6'3 guard with experience,athleticism,power and b ball iq. Imo he wouldn't be allowed a visit if HCGM wasnt interested,also wouldn't be allowed a visit if coach an staff were all confident in our current group of guards....excempt (shamet,an frankamp).

There is a 3rd possibility ... our coach is confident in our group of guards ... except for early this year. If Rose would come here, he would be the only Senior (besides the walk-ons ... though technically he might be a walk-on too)

[1979Shocker]

I'm all for this one and done joining the team if he can take us to at least the Elite 8.

[shocka khan]

Based on last season? Dude, you're obviously not tracking with the facts here. HE PLAYED IN TWO GAMES LAST SEASON. TWO. 27 MINUTES OF COURT TIME FOR THE SEASON.

I don't know which point guard got yanked, but it likely wasn't Rose.

You are correct, I confused Rose with Rob Gray, Jr. Rob was a sophomore last year, so it would make sense the coach would yank him if he made a mistake (does that remind anyone of Shaq?).

It also makes me wonder if Sampson was depending on Rose and after he went down, was stuck with the leftovers he had left.

That would make sense, given their chuck-and-duck style of basketball last season. The only really good player they had, IMO, was Danrad "Chicken" Knowles.

Having said that, I would much rather have Chicken than Roses, but they don't play the same position. So I guess I'll have to pass on both, if we are having to put out a scholly for Rose. According to what I read for my response to you, he did put up some nice numbers, but he was injured frequently during his career. I don't think we should be risking a schollie on a player who spends most of his time on the M*A*S*H unit.

[Stickboy46]

You are correct, I confused Rose with Rob Gray, Jr. Rob was a sophomore last year, so it would make sense the coach would yank him if he made a mistake (does that remind anyone of Shaq?).

It also makes me wonder if Sampson was depending on Rose and after he went down, was stuck with the leftovers he had left.

That would make sense, given their chuck-and-duck style of basketball last season. The only really good player they had, IMO, was Danrad "Chicken" Knowles.

Having said that, I would much rather have Chicken than Roses, but they don't play the same position. So I guess I'll have to pass on both, if we are having to put out a scholly for Rose. According to what I read for my response to you, he did put up some nice numbers, but he was injured frequently during his career. I don't think we should be risking a schollie on a player who spends most of his time on the M*A*S*H unit.

Since he only has 1 year left, its only "risking a schollie" for a year. So the only risk comes from how we aquire that schollie. If there is something already in the works that is freeing up a scholarship (like say a Freshmen headed to sunrise anyways) then its a very very low risk situation.

[WSUwatcher]

The Houston style of play may also have caused him to have a lower assist / turnover ratio that he would have had on a more fundamentally sound team. In any case, it seems as though Marshall is still hoping to add a PG IF he can do it in a way that works for the Shocks.

[ShockdaWorld]

Or, he's just continuing to shave every day.

[shockmonster]

Just under 2:1 assist/turnover ration. Man FVV spoiled us.

I guarantee you that under HCGM, our point guard won't have a 2:1 assist/turnover ratio.

[1972Shocker]

I guarantee you that under HCGM, our point guard won't have a 2:1 assist/turnover ratio.

Not sure the odds are in your favor on that one. In 4 of 3G's 9 years at WSU the point guards have done better than a 2:1 ratio:

2009-10: Clevin Hannah 2.26
2013-14: Fred VanVleet 4.02
2014-15: Fred VanVleet 3.10
2015-16: Fred Van Vleet 3.20

In 4 other years the point guard(s) had ratios under 2:1 as follows:

2007-08: Matt Brauer (1.52) and Gal Mekel (1.35) for a combined 1.41
2008-09: Clevin Hannah 1.68
2011-12: Joe Ragland (1.75) and Toure (1.51) for a combined 1.62
2012-13: Malcolm Armstead (1.76) and Fred VanVleet (1.93) for a combined 1.82

In one year you could argue either way perhaps:

2010-11: Joe Ragland (2.42) and Toure Murry (1.26) for a combined 1.61. Toure had 125 assists to 99 turnovers and Joe had 104 assists to 43 turnovers. Hard to say how many of Toure's came at the point and how many came at a wing position. Joe played about 21 minutes a game in this season.

At this point you would have to say Fred is the outlier and not the norm. Fred may have spoiled us a bit.

We could very well be back to point guard by committee next season.

[shockmonster]

I agree that Fred was an outlier. His ratio was 3:1. No one last year that played significant minutes had below a 2:1 ratio. Baker was on the plus side of 2:1, and Frankamp was too. While Shamet didn't play very much, I am not worried about him. Our players won't approach Fred's style of play but imo, turnovers won't be a problem next year.