2012 the cupboard is full

[WuDrWu]

Ede, I think, is not so ready.

[ShockTalk]

Ede, I think, is not so ready.

Thanks for the input, Doc. Makes me feel better about my red-shirt thinking.

[WuDrWu]

The thing that is so easy to forget, as fans we are, ESPECIALLY with first year players, is how tough the mental aspect of the game is.

We all know how difficult 3G's system is to fully grasp, and combine that with the first year of college education, probably the first year away from home, and you have a recipe for a really hard transition. Few make that immediate jump successfully, no matter the talent level.

Make no mistake, there is a lot of talent here, but that is just one of many components to a successful first season.

:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

[wufan]

Good Doc,

Which of the incomming freshman do you think are most likely to contribute their first year?

We didn't get very many pick-up game reports this year, and many that are now on the team weren't over the summer. Any insight into our new-commers, strengths, weaknesses, prognostications, are very welcome!

[WuDrWu]

Which of the incomming freshman do you think are most likely to contribute their first year?

Please understand that I am combining the very little I've been able to see over the summer with some common sense understanding of the program.

It's more than possible I'm going to be dead wrong on every point.


I haven't seen Anacreon play at all (I've been mostly out of it for the last 7 weeks) since he arrived. For me to speculate would be silly, but I guess that's what the internet is for....I suspect he'll provide a little bench help but not much.

I suspect the staff will be very tempted to not redshirt Baker but he will due to all the quality depth we have....next year look out.

Cotton is the tough one for me. I am thinking the staff is using Kenny Manigault as the road map for what exactly not to do and I think Tekele is following their advice. Again, the problem is all the talent in front of him. Still, I think he plays some this year, and helps. Probably should redshirt...I keep going back and forth on him. If we weren't so deep already......

I don't think Ede will be ready to contribute and will redshirt. Call it a hunch.

Hasty will be a crowd favorite, but is the more typical walk on.

I really am clueless on Wessel. I have to think he redshirts. He needs to imho.

Jake White is the one most ready, and I expect him to contribute from day 1. He will most certainly not redshirt. I really like this young man and I hope he has some early success because I think he would parlay that success into a huge career.

Carl Hall will start but I am still concerned about his health. (DISCLAIMER: I have NO reason to be concerned, just what happened last year). I wonder if he will have enough stamina to last as long as we likely will need him night in and night out.

Did I miss anyone?

[WSUwatcher]

Redshirts

The Shocks have 15 guys of scholarship caliber this coming season (the 13 known to be on scholarship plus Baker and Armstead); and, assuming everyone committed signs up and everyone who can return does so, 15 again to fill 13 spots for the season after.

That's a bunch of guys, and a bunch of pretty impressive talent, too. I can't remember such depth of talent at WSU. For what it's worth, I'll guess a couple of redshirts a year among the scholarship players for each of the next couple of seasons: Cotton (where are the minutes?) and either Egharevba or Wessel this coming year; Uwadiae (for seasoning and bulk) and probably Green (again, where are the minutes?) next.

[vancedave56]

I would think that is what we are building to; it would be great to be able to redshrit 2-3 players each year and still have 10-12 high quality players able to contribute.

[Aargh]

Here's the way I see the rotation.

PG - Ragland, Williams
SG - Murry, Kyles
SF - Smith, Ede
PF - Hall, Anacreon
C - Stutz, Orukpe, Hall

Marshall likes to have 3 PG's available. I think the 3rd option there is Murry.

That leaves Cotton, Wessel, and Green available for a RS without disrupting a 5-5 rotation that Marshall seems to play when he has the personnel.

The White/Anacreon battle may determine whether White is a RS candidate.

WSU finally signs a HS AA player and he's a potential RS candidate? Yikes!

I've got Ede in the rotation because he's been described as a herky-jerky stop-and-go driver. Those guys are really tough to guard and wear out defenders.

I've got Kyles as a role player even in his Sr year. Smith was one of the top players in the nation last year for offensive efficiency. I don't think Kyles will be able to take Smith out of the starting rotation. Smith and Kyles are both sky-walkers, but Smith has shown that he can do something with his athletic ability. Kyles is still learning how to use his athletic abilities.

[vancedave56]

I pretty much agree - I think this year's RS candidates are Tekele, and either Evan or Ede.
I really think Jake will see some action on the floor.

I'm leaning towards Tekele and Ede as the redshirts.

[wufan]

Which of the incomming freshman do you think are most likely to contribute their first year?

Please understand that I am combining the very little I've been able to see over the summer with some common sense understanding of the program.

It's more than possible I'm going to be dead wrong on every point.


I haven't seen Anacreon play at all (I've been mostly out of it for the last 7 weeks) since he arrived. For me to speculate would be silly, but I guess that's what the internet is for....I suspect he'll provide a little bench help but not much.

I suspect the staff will be very tempted to not redshirt Baker but he will due to all the quality depth we have....next year look out.

Cotton is the tough one for me. I am thinking the staff is using Kenny Manigault as the road map for what exactly not to do and I think Tekele is following their advice. Again, the problem is all the talent in front of him. Still, I think he plays some this year, and helps. Probably should redshirt...I keep going back and forth on him. If we weren't so deep already......

I don't think Ede will be ready to contribute and will redshirt. Call it a hunch.

Hasty will be a crowd favorite, but is the more typical walk on.

I really am clueless on Wessel. I have to think he redshirts. He needs to imho.

Jake White is the one most ready, and I expect him to contribute from day 1. He will most certainly not redshirt. I really like this young man and I hope he has some early success because I think he would parlay that success into a huge career.

Carl Hall will start but I am still concerned about his health. (DISCLAIMER: I have NO reason to be concerned, just what happened last year). I wonder if he will have enough stamina to last as long as we likely will need him night in and night out.

Did I miss anyone?

Thanks for the insight (or guess)! It's good to hear your confidence in Baker, Cotton, and White. Also, I certainly understand the difficulties freshman have in picking up HCGMs system, espescially whit so much returning depth. At current, it's hard to find a reason to NOT be excited about each and every player we have coming in this year (and the next two). Some won't pan out, but they all have so much unbridled potential.

[wufan]

Here's the way I see the rotation.

PG - Ragland, Williams
SG - Murry, Kyles
SF - Smith, Ede
PF - Hall, Anacreon
C - Stutz, Orukpe, Hall

I've got Kyles as a role player even in his Sr year. Smith was one of the top players in the nation last year for offensive efficiency. I don't think Kyles will be able to take Smith out of the starting rotation. Smith and Kyles are both sky-walkers, but Smith has shown that he can do something with his athletic ability. Kyles is still learning how to use his athletic abilities.

It's hard to disagree with the above (even though I did). I could certainly see it playing out with DK as a 15-20 mpg 6th man, but I really liked his defense against the opposing SG last year and much preferred Smith and Murry to play on the oppositions SF. What a great problem to have with those three seniors splitting minutes on the wing! Indiana State has some pretty good guards, but I'd be suprised if there is really anyone else that can hang with the shockers back court. Maybe Creighton...it depends on their three newcommers; Chatman, Dingman, and Gibb.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I just don't buy into the cupboard being full.

Seems to me to be overcrowding a bit...

Downtown, I have had some of the same feelings, but haven't been able to come up with good reasons as to why that's a bad thing eventhough it seems like there should be.

I'd like to hear your thinking.

I think i meant to use "overflowing" instead of overcrowding, but overcrowding seems to make sense. The thing about Coach Marshall is he has proven he will put the peiple he feels gives us the best chance tto ein on the floor. It doesnt matter if you're 4th or 9th in the rotation, you will probably see the floor if you work your but off and provide tangible results.

That said, Coach continues to step up the talent level. Those who step up thier game will play, those who dont can enjoy the ride or choose to move on. Its funny when talking about how competition makes everyone better, then we are concerned there may be too much competition.

I want the players that want to compete for time, not have it handed to them.

[Dan]

Our coaching staff appears to be developing a program that is going to be a junior and sneior heavy team every year. The days of freshmen and sophomores getting significant minutes are a thing of the past. I can see Jake getting good minutes, but after this year, it's going to be tough for a freshman to crack the rotation.

[pogo]

I agree with Dan in that freshmen of the future are going to find it tough to get alot of minutes because there will be talented upper class MEN in front of them. This is good.

[RoyalShock]

I agree with Dan in that freshmen of the future are going to find it tough to get alot of minutes because there will be talented upper class MEN in front of them. This is good.

But it may also may mean you completely miss on a recruiting class or two. I think that happened to Turgeon in the 2006 recruiting class since we were going to return so much the next year.

An impact player will want to come in and at least see some PT in their freshman year and be in the regular rotation or a starter by the time they are sophomores.

I'm not saying our current situation is a bad thing. Just that there is a potential downside.