Northern Iowa vs. WSU game thread

[Dan]

I'm not sure why the nit-picking on David Kyles. If one player elevated his game from last year to this year, it's David. I just wish our other guys would put in the work that he has. They all have flaws in their games and could benefit from some serious court time this next off-season.

[ShockerFever]

I'm not sure why the nit-picking on David Kyles. If one player elevated his game from last year to this year, it's David. I just wish our other guys would put in the work that he has. They all have flaws in their games and could benefit from some serious court time this next off-season.

+ 1

Others have regressed, while Kyles has improved.. by a LONGSHOT.

I just don't get the Kyles slamming after he led the team with scoring last night (tied) and shot realistically 50% from behind the arc. How anyone could possibly rail on that is beyond me.

[RoyalShock]

My thoughts on Kyles and his "gifts":

The scouting report on David prior to this year is that he's a slasher. Coaches don't just forget that becuase his outside shooting arrived this year. So teams are defending against that. There is a reason why he's had so many open threes. Sure, he's missed a few, but defenders respect his slashing ability.

We also have an offensive system that doesn't leave a lot of lanes to the basket open for drives. That also means there is help defense waiting. He has to pick his opportunities. Remember Randy Burns and how often he got stuck on the baseline after a failed drive to the basket? We don't want David using his "gifts" like that.

Kyles is now a shooter (he plays SG, after all) with slashing ability. Shooters go through slumps, so "the past eight games" doesn't provide enough data for me to not trust my eyes.

You also have to consider the past two years and how far he has come. His shot has just now gotten to the point where he is having to re-learn how to balance his skills and athleticism with the ball in his hands. David is doing enough other things on both sides of the ball that I'm fine with how he is using his gifts to help the team.

Thanks for your respectful response. Although 8 games is more than a slump in my eyes, I hope things turn around quickly.
:wsu_posters:

In looking at Kyles' game log, I only see five consecutive games of sub-par 3-pt shooting (4 of 19, 21%). He's 9 of 20 (45%) in the past three games.

So saying he had eight games in a row appears to be a statistical manipulation. The 4 of 19 stretch was bad enough that you added the next two games (5 of 11, which is quite good) to still present his overall percentage (over seven games, not eight) at 30%, which appears low.

The five-game slump coincides with the start of MVC play, where coaches and players know his game better. He still had double-figure scoring games against UE and BU in spite of only shooting 1-11 3FG. And that included 7-8 FTs, 5 assits, 5 steals and just 3 turnovers.. I would submit he used his abilities to still be productive in those games. That brings his productivity "slump" down to three games.

Now he's had three good games in a row, which is a sign that he's making adjustments and getting comfortable in his role again.

[WstateU]

I'm not sure why the nit-picking on David Kyles. If one player elevated his game from last year to this year, it's David. I just wish our other guys would put in the work that he has. They all have flaws in their games and could benefit from some serious court time this next off-season.

+ 1

Others have regressed, while Kyles has improved.. by a LONGSHOT.

I just don't get the Kyles slamming after he led the team with scoring last night (tied) and shot realistically 50% from behind the arc. How anyone could possibly rail on that is beyond me.

Is it the same guy who railed on Aaron Ellis earlier this year?

[ShockerFever]

I'm not sure why the nit-picking on David Kyles. If one player elevated his game from last year to this year, it's David. I just wish our other guys would put in the work that he has. They all have flaws in their games and could benefit from some serious court time this next off-season.

+ 1

Others have regressed, while Kyles has improved.. by a LONGSHOT.

I just don't get the Kyles slamming after he led the team with scoring last night (tied) and shot realistically 50% from behind the arc. How anyone could possibly rail on that is beyond me.

Is it the same guy who railed on Aaron Ellis earlier this year?

Wouldn't surprise me.. :whistle:

I should also add that DK also tied with leading assists last night with 3, and had only 1 turnover.

He obviously is the one to be pointing fingers at after last night. :roll: :roll:

[SubGod22]

My thoughts on Kyles and his "gifts":

The scouting report on David prior to this year is that he's a slasher. Coaches don't just forget that becuase his outside shooting arrived this year. So teams are defending against that. There is a reason why he's had so many open threes. Sure, he's missed a few, but defenders respect his slashing ability.

We also have an offensive system that doesn't leave a lot of lanes to the basket open for drives. That also means there is help defense waiting. He has to pick his opportunities. Remember Randy Burns and how often he got stuck on the baseline after a failed drive to the basket? We don't want David using his "gifts" like that.

Kyles is now a shooter (he plays SG, after all) with slashing ability. Shooters go through slumps, so "the past eight games" doesn't provide enough data for me to not trust my eyes.

You also have to consider the past two years and how far he has come. His shot has just now gotten to the point where he is having to re-learn how to balance his skills and athleticism with the ball in his hands. David is doing enough other things on both sides of the ball that I'm fine with how he is using his gifts to help the team.

Thanks for your respectful response. Although 8 games is more than a slump in my eyes, I hope things turn around quickly.
:wsu_posters:

In looking at Kyles' game log, I only see five consecutive games of sub-par 3-pt shooting (4 of 19, 21%). He's 9 of 20 (45%) in the past three games.

So saying he had eight games in a row appears to be a statistical manipulation. The 4 of 19 stretch was bad enough that you added the next two games (5 of 11, which is quite good) to still present his overall percentage (over seven games, not eight) at 30%, which appears low.

The five-game slump coincides with the start of MVC play, where coaches and players know his game better. He still had double-figure scoring games against UE and BU in spite of only shooting 1-11 3FG. And that included 7-8 FTs, 5 assits, 5 steals and just 3 turnovers.. I would submit he used his abilities to still be productive in those games. That brings his productivity "slump" down to three games.

Now he's had three good games in a row, which is a sign that he's making adjustments and getting comfortable in his role again.

Nothing more needs to be said.

[SHOXAAC]

My thoughts on Kyles and his "gifts":

The scouting report on David prior to this year is that he's a slasher. Coaches don't just forget that becuase his outside shooting arrived this year. So teams are defending against that. There is a reason why he's had so many open threes. Sure, he's missed a few, but defenders respect his slashing ability.

We also have an offensive system that doesn't leave a lot of lanes to the basket open for drives. That also means there is help defense waiting. He has to pick his opportunities. Remember Randy Burns and how often he got stuck on the baseline after a failed drive to the basket? We don't want David using his "gifts" like that.

Kyles is now a shooter (he plays SG, after all) with slashing ability. Shooters go through slumps, so "the past eight games" doesn't provide enough data for me to not trust my eyes.

You also have to consider the past two years and how far he has come. His shot has just now gotten to the point where he is having to re-learn how to balance his skills and athleticism with the ball in his hands. David is doing enough other things on both sides of the ball that I'm fine with how he is using his gifts to help the team.

Thanks for your respectful response. Although 8 games is more than a slump in my eyes, I hope things turn around quickly.
:wsu_posters:

In looking at Kyles' game log, I only see five consecutive games of sub-par 3-pt shooting (4 of 19, 21%). He's 9 of 20 (45%) in the past three games.

So saying he had eight games in a row appears to be a statistical manipulation. The 4 of 19 stretch was bad enough that you added the next two games (5 of 11, which is quite good) to still present his overall percentage (over seven games, not eight) at 30%, which appears low.

The five-game slump coincides with the start of MVC play, where coaches and players know his game better. He still had double-figure scoring games against UE and BU in spite of only shooting 1-11 3FG. And that included 7-8 FTs, 5 assits, 5 steals and just 3 turnovers.. I would submit he used his abilities to still be productive in those games. That brings his productivity "slump" down to three games.

Now he's had three good games in a row, which is a sign that he's making adjustments and getting comfortable in his role again.

I lumped the 8 games because it just happened to coincide with the start of Valley play. I never said he had 8 consecutive bad shooting games. Over the 8 Valley games, even with his better "past 3 games," he is 13-43 from beyond (.302%). And I know I am partly guilty of this subject getting out of hand, and I will take responsibilty for that, but my single biggest gripe with David is the ratio of 3's (70%). For a guy that we all know is capable of so much on the offensive end, he limits himself by settling for the 3 too much.

I like what David can bring to the team. Some posters call it railing. I just want better. Again, my appologies. I know some posters will continue to "rail" me after even this post...but that's ok.

[Ricardo del Rio]

While I was watching this game, I kept thinking how in the world did Indiana State beat this team 70-45?

Maybe UNI had the team flu when they played the Sycamores.

Simply put: They played the offensive game of their lives. Sure it didn't help that WSU was giving them a lot of open looks and their defense was shaky at times. But Northern Iowa is a team that has been averaging like 47 points on the road in Valley play. They shoot pretty bad normally around 42 or 43%. Their even more atrocious from 3-point range.

Chuck it up to one of those nights where they get every bounce and make every shot with their eyes closed doing circus tricks types of nights. They won't have one of those again this season.

I agree in spades. To salve over my disappointment, I finally consolved myself by your statement above.

The Panthers have a philosophy for winning as follows:
1. Control the clock/patience/run the sets over and over until there is a good shot.
2. Play tough defense
3. Minimize fouls
4. Mimimize turnovers

When the Panthers do the above and shoot 57.4%, they are tough to beat.
While the Panthers were not great in #1 and #2, they were quite fine in #3 and #4. They only had 13 fouls and 6 turnovers.

For what it is worth, in my opinion, Jake Koch is a front running dog.

[SFL]

[ShockerFever]

My thoughts on Kyles and his "gifts":

The scouting report on David prior to this year is that he's a slasher. Coaches don't just forget that becuase his outside shooting arrived this year. So teams are defending against that. There is a reason why he's had so many open threes. Sure, he's missed a few, but defenders respect his slashing ability.

We also have an offensive system that doesn't leave a lot of lanes to the basket open for drives. That also means there is help defense waiting. He has to pick his opportunities. Remember Randy Burns and how often he got stuck on the baseline after a failed drive to the basket? We don't want David using his "gifts" like that.

Kyles is now a shooter (he plays SG, after all) with slashing ability. Shooters go through slumps, so "the past eight games" doesn't provide enough data for me to not trust my eyes.

You also have to consider the past two years and how far he has come. His shot has just now gotten to the point where he is having to re-learn how to balance his skills and athleticism with the ball in his hands. David is doing enough other things on both sides of the ball that I'm fine with how he is using his gifts to help the team.

Thanks for your respectful response. Although 8 games is more than a slump in my eyes, I hope things turn around quickly.
:wsu_posters:

In looking at Kyles' game log, I only see five consecutive games of sub-par 3-pt shooting (4 of 19, 21%). He's 9 of 20 (45%) in the past three games.

So saying he had eight games in a row appears to be a statistical manipulation. The 4 of 19 stretch was bad enough that you added the next two games (5 of 11, which is quite good) to still present his overall percentage (over seven games, not eight) at 30%, which appears low.

The five-game slump coincides with the start of MVC play, where coaches and players know his game better. He still had double-figure scoring games against UE and BU in spite of only shooting 1-11 3FG. And that included 7-8 FTs, 5 assits, 5 steals and just 3 turnovers.. I would submit he used his abilities to still be productive in those games. That brings his productivity "slump" down to three games.

Now he's had three good games in a row, which is a sign that he's making adjustments and getting comfortable in his role again.

I lumped the 8 games because it just happened to coincide with the start of Valley play. I never said he had 8 consecutive bad shooting games. Over the 8 Valley games, even with his better "past 3 games," he is 13-43 from beyond (.302%). And I know I am partly guilty of this subject getting out of hand, and I will take responsibilty for that, but my single biggest gripe with David is the ratio of 3's (70%). For a guy that we all know is capable of so much on the offensive end, he limits himself by settling for the 3 too much.

I like what David can bring to the team. Some posters call it railing. I just want better. Again, my appologies. I know some posters will continue to "rail" me after even this post...but that's ok.

I think Royal and most people took it that you made it seem like an 8-game slump.

David Kyles is our best outside shooter in terms of percentage and threes made. Knocking a guy for successfully using that ability is mystifying, especially considering that you brought it up after a game he excelled in those categories in. It's mind-boggling and makes little to no sense.

Still haven't noticed a detailed breakdown on Toure Murry. Just a random sentence or two when questioned about it.

Talk about having an agenda..

... and then having that agenda systematically SQUASHED.

[ShockerFever]

While I was watching this game, I kept thinking how in the world did Indiana State beat this team 70-45?

Maybe UNI had the team flu when they played the Sycamores.

Simply put: They played the offensive game of their lives. Sure it didn't help that WSU was giving them a lot of open looks and their defense was shaky at times. But Northern Iowa is a team that has been averaging like 47 points on the road in Valley play. They shoot pretty bad normally around 42 or 43%. Their even more atrocious from 3-point range.

Chuck it up to one of those nights where they get every bounce and make every shot with their eyes closed doing circus tricks types of nights. They won't have one of those again this season.

I agree in spades. To salve over my disappointment, I finally consolved myself by your statement above.

The Panthers have a philosophy for winning as follows:
1. Control the clock/patience/run the sets over and over until there is a good shot.
2. Play tough defense
3. Minimize fouls
4. Mimimize turnovers

When the Panthers do the above and shoot 57.4%, they are tough to beat.
While the Panthers were not great in #1 and #2, they were quite fine in #3 and #4. They only had 13 fouls and 6 turnovers.

For what it is worth, in my opinion, Jake Koch is a front running dog.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I think the way they were putting everything up from everywhere that they probably could have beat about 95% of Division I teams last night.

[WSUwatcher]

Well said

Band, good luck in your level-headed mediation. One of the reasons I long ago stopped reading Fever a/k/a Cold's posts was that he seems constitutionally incapable of not personalizing the discussion and having the last word.

Life's too short to waste time on that stuff.

[XManCometh]

While I was watching this game, I kept thinking how in the world did Indiana State beat this team 70-45?

Maybe UNI had the team flu when they played the Sycamores.

Simply put: They played the offensive game of their lives. Sure it didn't help that WSU was giving them a lot of open looks and their defense was shaky at times. But Northern Iowa is a team that has been averaging like 47 points on the road in Valley play. They shoot pretty bad normally around 42 or 43%. Their even more atrocious from 3-point range.

Chuck it up to one of those nights where they get every bounce and make every shot with their eyes closed doing circus tricks types of nights. They won't have one of those again this season.

I agree in spades. To salve over my disappointment, I finally consoled myself by your statement above.

The Panthers have a philosophy for winning as follows:
1. Control the clock/patience/run the sets over and over until there is a good shot.
2. Play tough defense
3. Minimize fouls
4. Minimize turnovers

When the Panthers do the above and shoot 57.4%, they are tough to beat.
While the Panthers were not great in #1 and #2, they were quite fine in #3 and #4. They only had 13 fouls and 6 turnovers.

For what it is worth, in my opinion, Jake Koch is a front running dog.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I think the way they were putting everything up from everywhere that they probably could have beat about 95% of Division I teams last night.

Well, we did shoot just 1% less from the field than they did (57.4% to 56.3%) and made exactly the same amount of FGs (27) so I wouldn't blame this loss solely on UNI shooting lights out, since we did the same. Our defense needs to take a look in the mirror because smart, well coached teams just destroy us by shooting lights out all the time.

Also, if we hadn't just given them the ball via steal seven times, we'd be talking about winning a close game, instead of wondering about what happened.

[SHOXAAC]

quote]Still haven't noticed a detailed breakdown on Toure Murry. Just a random sentence or two when questioned about it.quote]

SF - Believe it or not you don't get to make all the rules. You seem to have an interest in what I have to say about Murry and others. How about one step at a time. You seem to have forgotten my post at 3:05 pm (I'm not as computer literate as most on this board, or I would have magically brought it to this post). Respond to that, then we'll move on.

[ShockerFever]

Re: Well said

Band, good luck in your level-headed mediation. One of the reasons I long ago stopped reading Fever a/k/a Cold's posts was that he seems constitutionally incapable of not personalizing the discussion and having the last word.

Life's too short to waste time on that stuff.

Or it could be that the video of the puppy and the alligator was too much for somebody to handle and they had to cry to get the person they were engaging with banned. :cry:

If you don't like discussion on a MESSAGE BOARD, then I'd suggest that you do us all a favor and move on.