The Team of Missed Opportunities

[kochHead]

this has to be one of the most disappointing seasons in a while. we have lost 5 out of our 6 games by a total of 14 points (not including SDSU). Late game situations have killed us this year.....my question is
---Is it poor coaching?
---Is it not recruiting the right kids?

Another season like this....and I don't think GM will be around long.
My HOPE is that we win Arch Madness ---and put the rest of the season to rest.

Put the booze & the peyote to the side...HCGM, as bad as he butchered not full-court pressing the last 4.5 seconds, will be here as long as he wants to.

You really know your stuff. Full Court Press huh? Yep, because putting on a full court press has never lead to quick uncontested basket.

I know enough that going 94 feet with 94 feet of obstacles takes more time to negotiate than going 94 feet with only 47 feet of obstacles. Any more dumb questions?

Yeah, one more. Which is faster, throwing a ball from point A to point B or running while dribbling from point A to point B?

Case and point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx9QuOqN6qw

Now have you ever seen some one run the length of the court and score in .7 sec? No? Any more dumb questions?

Talk about apples to oranges. You are approaching the Vandy/WSU scenerio as if it would happen automatic that way on a regular basis.

The better quesiton is:

A. How often do you see a team with just under 5 seconds to go, while under full-court duress, successfully complete the "Hail Mary," as in your example?

VS.

B. A team with a savy, experienced and fast point guard with just under 5 seconds, that encounters zero pressure until mid-court, get fouled while attempting a shot within 8 feet of the basket, with still 0.8 seconds on the clock?

This little excercise is for everyone not just for you coc-head.

My answer is out of 10 times example A might no even happen once, while example B might happen 3 or 4 times. Please discuss.

The point of the video is you can throw a pass and get down the length of the court faster than dribble the length of the court, not that the "Vandy Play" is more likely than the one we saw vs VCU.

You see with every play there is a risk/reward. Pressing while it may slow down Rodriguez also runs the risk of giving up an uncontested shot if the press is broken. That may have been a risk HCGM was not willing to take. We have seen in the past that HCGM when being pressed at end of games has a "home run play" that works very well (usually when we are up). Most coaches don't press when in the same situation as HCGM because you do not want to find yourself in a postion where your D is our of position.

Hindsight is 20/20 so you have the advantage of saying "it didn't work so we should have done another way". Maybe pressing would have resulted in a more favorable outcome, but everyone got back on D,guarded their man, and the shot was contested and missed. I am not going to blame HCGM.

coc-head? Really? Lol.

You're the one that piped in with an attitude "you really know your stuff," insinuating that applying a full-court press would lead to an uncontested basket all the time.

Then you posed a rediculous question "which is faster, throwing a ball from point A to point B, or running while dribbling from Point A to point B?" Then the real dousy...attaching a youtube of the WSU/Vandy game. How could anyone not buy into that brilliant logic. Oh, I forgot your next Einstein-like question..."now have you ever seen someone run the length of the court and score in .7 sec?"

Now answer my question without all the rhetoric. Do you honestly think the risk of giving up a "homerun" play in a late-game situation is worth letting a savy, quick, fast, experienced guard that has been abusing us all night long get to the basket with very little resistance? How did it work out for us again? Again, without the stonewall verbage, grace me with your great insight.

SHOXMVC - "HCGM, as bad as he butchered not full-court pressing the last 4.5 seconds"

You got attitude because you brought the view point that it was HCGM that cost them the game by butchering the last 4.5 sec. Applying a full court press is different than applying pressure. Here is my great insight...you have no great insight. If you think your such a great coach go share your ideas with HCGM.

Congratulations...you are now in the fan board club "I have no clue how to back my ridiculous assertion, so I will talk in circles and hope to divert the original premise" category. Next time you think you have something to offer...go take a nap.

Congratulations...you are now in the fan board club "The coach screwed it up, we did X and we should have done Y" category. And how do you back it up? "See X didn't work that's why we should have done Y"

[SHOXAAC]

[quote:d2834b12d6="melcong4"]this has to be one of the most disappointing seasons in a while. we have lost 5 out of our 6 games by a total of 14 points (not including SDSU). Late game situations have killed us this year.....my question is
---Is it poor coaching?
---Is it not recruiting the right kids?

Another season like this....and I don't think GM will be around long.
My HOPE is that we win Arch Madness ---and put the rest of the season to rest.

Put the booze & the peyote to the side...HCGM, as bad as he butchered not full-court pressing the last 4.5 seconds, will be here as long as he wants to.

You really know your stuff. Full Court Press huh? Yep, because putting on a full court press has never lead to quick uncontested basket.

I know enough that going 94 feet with 94 feet of obstacles takes more time to negotiate than going 94 feet with only 47 feet of obstacles. Any more dumb questions?

Yeah, one more. Which is faster, throwing a ball from point A to point B or running while dribbling from point A to point B?

Case and point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx9QuOqN6qw

Now have you ever seen some one run the length of the court and score in .7 sec? No? Any more dumb questions?

Talk about apples to oranges. You are approaching the Vandy/WSU scenerio as if it would happen automatic that way on a regular basis.

The better quesiton is:

A. How often do you see a team with just under 5 seconds to go, while under full-court duress, successfully complete the "Hail Mary," as in your example?

VS.

B. A team with a savy, experienced and fast point guard with just under 5 seconds, that encounters zero pressure until mid-court, get fouled while attempting a shot within 8 feet of the basket, with still 0.8 seconds on the clock?

This little excercise is for everyone not just for you coc-head.

My answer is out of 10 times example A might no even happen once, while example B might happen 3 or 4 times. Please discuss.

The point of the video is you can throw a pass and get down the length of the court faster than dribble the length of the court, not that the "Vandy Play" is more likely than the one we saw vs VCU.

You see with every play there is a risk/reward. Pressing while it may slow down Rodriguez also runs the risk of giving up an uncontested shot if the press is broken. That may have been a risk HCGM was not willing to take. We have seen in the past that HCGM when being pressed at end of games has a "home run play" that works very well (usually when we are up). Most coaches don't press when in the same situation as HCGM because you do not want to find yourself in a postion where your D is our of position.

Hindsight is 20/20 so you have the advantage of saying "it didn't work so we should have done another way". Maybe pressing would have resulted in a more favorable outcome, but everyone got back on D,guarded their man, and the shot was contested and missed. I am not going to blame HCGM.

coc-head? Really? Lol.

You're the one that piped in with an attitude "you really know your stuff," insinuating that applying a full-court press would lead to an uncontested basket all the time.

Then you posed a rediculous question "which is faster, throwing a ball from point A to point B, or running while dribbling from Point A to point B?" Then the real dousy...attaching a youtube of the WSU/Vandy game. How could anyone not buy into that brilliant logic. Oh, I forgot your next Einstein-like question..."now have you ever seen someone run the length of the court and score in .7 sec?"

Now answer my question without all the rhetoric. Do you honestly think the risk of giving up a "homerun" play in a late-game situation is worth letting a savy, quick, fast, experienced guard that has been abusing us all night long get to the basket with very little resistance? How did it work out for us again? Again, without the stonewall verbage, grace me with your great insight.

SHOXMVC - "HCGM, as bad as he butchered not full-court pressing the last 4.5 seconds"

You got attitude because you brought the view point that it was HCGM that cost them the game by butchering the last 4.5 sec. Applying a full court press is different than applying pressure. Here is my great insight...you have no great insight. If you think your such a great coach go share your ideas with HCGM.

Congratulations...you are now in the fan board club "I have no clue how to back my ridiculous assertion, so I will talk in circles and hope to divert the original premise" category. Next time you think you have something to offer...go take a nap.

Congratulations...you are now in the fan board club "The coach screwed it up, we did X and we should have done Y" category. And how do you back it up? "See X didn't work that's why we should have done Y"[/quote:d2834b12d6]

That's a great argument for sissies. Let's figure out a way to freeze time with 4.9 seconds so SN can debate it. Or, let's use the common sense that was given to SOME of us at birth and do what's logical. HCGM butchered the last 4.9 seconds, not because we know the outcome already, it's because common sense, before Rodgriguez beat us, would tell you to apply 94-feet of zone pressure. It would delay VCU getting into fore-court. I like Marshall as a coach, but even good coaches screw up. Marshall screwed up by not presenting VCU with 94 feet of opposition.

[kochHead]

Let's just kill the BS and talk BB for a second. If you press the only press you can run is a zone press / zone trap. Most likely a 1-3-1. It might work great, slow 12 down and win the game. Or he could break the press with the drive or a pass, if that happens VCU most likly gets a very good look, or WSU could be called for a foul on the trap. HCGM chose to play strait up D. Raggs should have applied more pressure before half court, but I understand why he didn't because a foul 60 feet from the basket loses the game as well.

This did not start because you suggested a press might have been the better option, it started because you said HCGM butchered the last 4.5 sec of the game by not pressing. I disagree with that. I don't think pressing is a "dumb" thing to do there, but i don't blame coaches for not doing it there, because there are disadvantages. Your argument is that given the totality of the situation, a press would have been the better play. I get that, but you have the advantage of looking at it after the play was over, HCGM had to make the decision before the play started. I do not believe he made an error in judgment. You can point to the outcome as your proof, but we do not have the luxury of watching any other senario play out for the last 4.5 seconds of this game. We will just have to disagree.

I am moving my focus to Wednesday night.

Go Shox.

[ShoxFan45]

Let's just kill the BS and talk BB for a second. If you press the only press you can run is a zone press / zone trap. Most likely a 1-3-1. It might work great, slow 12 down and win the game. Or he could break the press with the drive or a pass, if that happens VCU most likly gets a very good look, or WSU could be called for a foul on the trap. HCGM chose to play strait up D. Raggs should have applied more pressure before half court, but I understand why he didn't because a foul 60 feet from the basket loses the game as well.

This did not start because you suggested a press might have been the better option, it started because you said HCGM butchered the last 4.5 sec of the game by not pressing. I disagree with that. I don't think pressing is a "dumb" thing to do there, but i don't blame coaches for not doing it there, because there are disadvantages. Your argument is that given the totality of the situation, a press would have been the better play. I get that, but you have the advantage of looking at it after the play was over, HCGM had to make the decision before the play started. I do not believe he made an error in judgment. You can point to the outcome as your proof, but we do not have the luxury of watching any other senario play out for the last 4.5 seconds of this game. We will just have to disagree.

I am moving my focus to Wednesday night.

Go Shox.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[shock-it-to-me]

[quote="ShoxFan45"]

Let's just kill the BS and talk BB for a second. If you press the only press you can run is a zone press / zone trap. Most likely a 1-3-1. It might work great, slow 12 down and win the game. Or he could break the press with the drive or a pass, if that happens VCU most likly gets a very good look, or WSU could be called for a foul on the trap. HCGM chose to play strait up D. Raggs should have applied more pressure before half court, but I understand why he didn't because a foul 60 feet from the basket loses the game as well.

This did not start because you suggested a press might have been the better option, it started because you said HCGM butchered the last 4.5 sec of the game by not pressing. I disagree with that. I don't think pressing is a "dumb" thing to do there, but i don't blame coaches for not doing it there, because there are disadvantages. Your argument is that given the totality of the situation, a press would have been the better play. I get that, but you have the advantage of looking at it after the play was over, HCGM had to make the decision before the play started. I do not believe he made an error in judgment. You can point to the outcome as your proof, but we do not have the luxury of watching any other senario play out for the last 4.5 seconds of this game. We will just have to disagree.

I am moving my focus to Wednesday night.

Go Shox.

I think its a team by team situation. If you were facing a team of small, quick players, with several good options for moving the ball with the dribble, I would say man up, but in this case, there was a clear cut, one and only choice for VCU, if we denied him the ball and double teamed him, I would certainly have taken my chances in a 4 on 3 situation where VCU has to get the length of the court and score with any one of those 'other' 4 guys. I think the odds go way, way down in that scenerio against that particular team, and its the coaches job to know those odds.

[NCAABound]

And another opportunity goes by the wayside.

[NCAABound]

Now that I think about it...when is the last big game we won?

[T.VuOP]

One more at the Lou. Hope they save the best for last 8)

[ISASO]

Our next upset win of the Marshall era will be our first?

[NCAABound]

That's kinda what I was thinking....for some reason Syracuse comes to mind as the last "big" win.

[SB Shock]

And another opportunity goes by the wayside.

I don't know if if is going to matter or not but this team has really never played to their potential. At some point you would think the would put it together - post season in Stl and in the ncaa would be the perfect time. But I could be wrong and this team is whAt it is.

[shox1989]

What is Marshall's biggest win at Wichita State? The biggest one I can think of was beating Texas Tech at Koch when the Red Raiders were ranked in the top 25.

Texas Tech tanked so the win really didn't amount to much, but I can't think of a bigger one under Marshall.

[another shocker]

Well, the regular season is over now.

WSU was overrated, it would seem.

[SB Shock]

Well, the regular season is over now.

WSU was overrated, it would seem.

Slightly I guess. They were picked 1st and finished 2nd.

[another shocker]

Right, SB Shock. Overrated, without a doubt. We didn't know, nobody knew, that WSU was basically center-less (okay, compared to top-40 teams, SB), and that Toure Murry would turn into Moe Howard. What is with him?